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Author Topic: Seeking Opinions on Big Screen Presentation Bob Jones Film Handler Posts: 47 From: Atlanta, GA Registered: Jun 2003 posted 09-29-2006 10:09 PM                     Traveling around the country - it seems there is growing popularity of building at least one "Giant" screen in the plex. Most of these seem to range from 60-80 feet wide. Alot of these seem "dim" - I've been told by some techs they are actually only reading around 9 foot-lamberts with film running. I'm interested to know ya'lls thoughts on how/if there is way to obtain a presentation that is sufficently bright enough for say an 80 foot x 43 foot screen - while still being able to realize economies of scale and seating about 500-600 people (without a balcony). Typically, this puts the throw at about 100 feet (based on 40 seats per row and 48" rows) from the screen - and to my knowledge 7K watts is about the limit of what 35mm can stand. Thanks for your thoughts -- Bob  |  IP: Logged Michael Coate Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1904 From: Los Angeles, California Registered: Feb 2001 posted 09-29-2006 10:28 PM                     quote: Bob Jones I'm interested to know ya'lls thoughts on how/if there is way to obtain a presentation that is sufficently bright enough for say an 80 foot x 43 foot screen Project 70mm.  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 09-29-2006 10:31 PM                     Please change your profile to show an actual city and state.  |  IP: Logged Bob Jones Film Handler Posts: 47 From: Atlanta, GA Registered: Jun 2003 posted 09-29-2006 10:40 PM                     Wouldn't that be nice -- but for the purposes of this discussion - were stuck with the first-run 35mm prints  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 09-30-2006 04:30 AM                       quote: Michael Coate Project 70mm.  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 09-30-2006 12:05 PM                     With 35mm film, the heat output of the Xenon bulb with sufficient power to light such a screen would not be kind to film, warping the projected film frame, not to mention the temperature of the gate. The increased amount of image space on 70mm film does indeed make it the most practical choice, though opinions will fly over this. There are plenty of opinions that should be easily uncovered with a search.  |  IP: Logged Mark Lensenmayer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1605 From: Upper Arlington, OH Registered: Sep 1999 posted 09-30-2006 04:04 PM                     Try to find out what Marcus is doing with their UltraScreen rooms. I have seen one here with about a 65' screen, and it looks better than one might think. 70mm would be a fine alternative, but that just isn't going to happen.  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 09-30-2006 06:08 PM                     The problem with a BIG screen in a resonably large auditorium is that to most people it will appear too big to be comfortable. From the back or at least 75% back it will be fine.... for the rest it's just pushing the limits of 35mm too far. As long as the 'message' is imparted to the viewer with no visual distractions then the goal of film presentation has been achived. The aim is to show the image without the mechaincal methods being exposed. Grain, weave, jump, loss of definition and dim images being the problems exposed by pushing the limits. In the current push towards digital presentation with its high lamp wattage needs, I'd be interested to see what a 70ft picture looks like. Unfortunatly the WOW factor of some of these very large screens soon gives way to the realisation that biggest is seldom the best. I'd much rather see a 40ft picture well lit and with sharp focus and none of the other distractions. Short focal length len's are exceptional in what they can achive.... unfortunatly 35mmm film just isn't up to the task. If you want GIANT screens then go giant format, 70mm, and deliver on your big screen promise. But in this day and age of poor wages and front of house projection staff the reality is that they cannot maintain the presentation that is currently on offer. So Respect the 35mm format and don't push it!  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 09-30-2006 06:16 PM                     used to work at a 21 goo-gooplex with 5 houses holding 33x65 foot screens. Machinery consisted of CHRISTIE SLC-45 consoles burning 6k bulbs with shooting most of this light through P35GPS machines - with a 95 foot throw at the norm. 7k bulbs is the limit for 35mm projection. I loved those consoles for the had the blowers inside to get that heat out of there. Also, what helped was the use of 14 inch mirrors. Picture looked better using scope features than with flat features due to the larger aperture opening. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Paul H. Rayton Expert Film Handler Posts: 210 From: Los Angeles, CA , USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 09-30-2006 06:35 PM                    Here's another vote for using 70mm prints for such (hypothetical?) venues. It's not so unusual, either! Check the "in70mm.com" website for some specific details, but European exhibitors have done this several times, though not in the last two or 3 years, if I'm not mistaken. The European "Kinopolis" Theatre chain commissioned a few 70mm prints for exhibition on their largest screens. Also, the Oslo {Norway) "Spektrum", a very large venue, hosted several 70mm showings of custom-made prints. Showmanship doesn't have to end, and if you're going to put on a show that's sold primarily on being "big", that doesn't necessarily equate to being also "dim" and grainy. Disney made a 70mm print of "Pearl Harbor" for a premiere in Tokyo -- on a giant screen. If you want to do it right, do it 70mm! Think "I want to make it great", not "How dim can I make it before the audience suspects something is really wrong?"  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-30-2006 06:57 PM                     The "no 70mm" is truly and exhibitor thing. The studios constantly tell me that they don't make it anymore because exhibitors don't ask for it (and I don't mean the odd cinema here and there...but as an industry). If Regal and/or AMC said "make us 70mm" there would be 70mm prints. 35mm, to me, just doesn't look all that impressive on that big a screen...in fact, it doesn't look all that impressive to me on screens about 26-feet wide and larger. An EK print on a 40-foot screen can look great but not a release print. Naturally, it all depends on how far one is away from the image and what portion of their vision the screen encompasses...even VHS looks great from a mile away on a 21" screen. However, I like the screen to completely fill my vision such that some amount of head movement is required for all of the action. Generally, only 70mm delivers on that and it is an experience that one simply can not get in the home with today's technology (even HDTV). So as to how wide a screen for 35mm...it all depends on the lens, screen gain, the lamphouse/lamp and shutter. The biggest I could go with 35mm not being damaged and achieve 16fL is about 31' x 74'. The screen will be curved and with gain. The equipment would need to be chosen very carefully. And if you are sitting about 93-feet away, it would even look pretty good.  |  IP: Logged Chad Souder Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 962 From: Waterloo, IA, USA Registered: Feb 2000 posted 09-30-2006 07:48 PM                     I have a 70' screen (curved) and we use a 4000w in a Kinoton. It looks fantastic.  |  IP: Logged Floyd Justin Newton Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 559 From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 09-30-2006 07:50 PM                     Steve-- You are "right-on" there, Buddy!  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-30-2006 09:29 PM                        We saw "World Trade Center" in Denver at some theatre that advertised "on our GIANT SCREEN!" Unfortunately, the ad was apparently referring to the ROOM, not the screen. It couldn't have been more than 40' wide. But there were about 750 seats in there.  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 09-30-2006 10:50 PM                     Cinemasource has recently taken over scheduling for the Minneapolis Star Tribune, and among the options which circuits or theatres can choose to attribute to a showtime is GIANT SCREEN... An option since adopted by some local houses which use the term "GIANT" quite liberally. Deception will degrade standards I think last year's IMAX release of Polar Express shows that there is still a lot of public vitality to the techinical virtues of 70mm. Perhaps conventional 70mm needs a new buzz-term for the process to generate the needed public interest.  |  IP: Logged

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