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Author Topic: A Print is Shedding: What to Do? Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 11-29-2006 03:25 PM                     For some reason, one of our projectors, a Simplex/Strong, has been causing many prints to just shed. I'm not really sure what to look for, but everything seems to be in order. Our tech is not going to be coming in for a little while and was wondering what I can do in the interim. Basically, after each show, there is an abundance of pinkish white dust EVERYWHERE. It doesn't seem to collect more in one spot or another, but is just all over the place. It's gotten to the point where it has collected quite a bit on the print, including the Dolby track. It was so dirty, we had to run it in SR because of the failure rate. I've got my Kelmar cleaner on the print now, and tried using C-Lube on the media pads, as we don't have Film Guard. I know there are ways for us here at Cinemark to get it, but not entirely sure how. Either way, is this something good to do in the interim to get the print looking a little better and having the Dolby sound functional? It seems to be working a little, but I'm going to run this test on the next two shows tonight. Also, would it be better to soak the pads in the C-Lube or use the spray bottle I put it in? It just seems as if I'm not saturating the pads good enough. Any advice is greatly appreciated. AJG [ 11-29-2006, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Aaron Garman ]  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 11-29-2006 03:33 PM                    This may sound stupid to suggest, but have you cleaned the dolby reader lens? If the pink dust is everywhere..its prolly there to.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 11-29-2006 03:46 PM                     Yeah, I've been cleaning the whole projector every round. This is going to get daunting tonight, with 4 double starts. Joy for multiplexes! AJG  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-29-2006 03:48 PM                        Black & white ESTAR-base print?  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 11-29-2006 04:05 PM                     Off the top of my head, we've had these prints in there that have been excessivley shedding: Flushed Away Flags of Our Fathers Casino Royale Flags was horrible, and Casino right now is just absolute . AJG  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 11-29-2006 04:20 PM                    Well, we have some pink dust, but not to the degree that you seem to have. We use filmguard though. Perhaps you have a static problem? Around this time of year, weird things happens. The dust may just be clinging to the print, however, I've never heard of it being so bad that it affects the digital reader.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-29-2006 06:37 PM                        quote: Aaron Garman has been causing many prints to just shred I think you should change your thread title to reflect the actual problem, which is shedding, not shredding. If your projector is shredding prints then you've got a real problem.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 11-29-2006 06:42 PM                     Thanks Mike! Yeah, shredding would be bad, yet interesting to watch. Heck, while we're at it, anyone ever try putting film in the microwave? Ok, back to the topic. I decided to go ahead and soak the media pads...that didn't work as for some reason, the pads would not go on to the Kelmar. I ended up putting on some dry ones and using the spray bottle again, but they were a pain in the ass to get on there. They usually slide on pretty easy, so I don't know what is going on with my film cleaner. I swear, it never ends! Alright, time to go start the travesty Deck the Halls. AJG  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 11-29-2006 08:14 PM                     I really wouldn't use C Lube in place of FG. If only one thing, get as much dust out of the head as possible between shows, in all parts of the head. Don't forget failsafes & platter surfaces. I've never used C Lube on anything besides leaders, as it seemed to leave an unsightly vapor blotch on film.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 11-29-2006 09:24 PM                     I really didn't want to use it, but I figured I might as well try something because if I don't, the print is just going to get worse. I've managed to get most of the dolby track workable now, and the trailers actually looks signifigantly better. The feature, of course, isn't looking too much better, but it's getting there. What I wouldn't do to get some film guard. AJG  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 11-29-2006 09:49 PM                     If you've got a SImplex machine, you might find a huge improvement by cleaning the head, corner to corner once at the end of the night/start of the first shift. There's a lot of corners for dust to find its way into in those Simplexes. Also, make sure there's no excess oil caked up in these spots that might attract the emulsion dust. But only once a day will show improvement over time. The area behind the gate bands, around the guides & especially around the pinch roller in the soundhead are the places to get totally cleaned, by priority if needed. I justify this because they're closest to the aperture& will make the edges of your picture look as bad as the image could get if not cleaned. We have a 1999 Simplex that gets bad shed from some prints, but I would say only six per year. Toothbrush, paper towels & film cleaners will do more to control how much dirt could find its way onto the print. And those 5 Stars are unforgiving when it comes to contact with film. I've received quite a few move-overs from local houses that showed that uniform stripe of wear down the film.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-29-2006 09:58 PM                     Something is possibly being misaligned. The intermittent sprocket could be misaligned with the shoes to where the shoes are nicking the outboard edge of the sprocket teeth to where it's making that tooth edge razor sharp to where it's actually shaving the inside portion of the sprockethole to get your shedding problem. Or, a possible sharp edge in the gate and trap assembly shaving the edge of the print just minutely. If you got a curved gate assembly, wonder if your trapbands are getting thin, or if you have the flat gate variety, the trap side rails are getting grooved and this will cause edge shedding. Either way, the tekkie is going to be busy there for a while.. A 6-plex that I service had one PR-1050 with flat trap and gate assembly do the same thing: looked like a 'pink and white snowstorm' in that unit. The outboard shoe was digging into the sprocket teeth to make the outboard edge of those teeth razor sharp and slicing the one side of the sprocketholes out. What had happened is that the shoe assembly spring had become somewhat weak and the shoe assembly shifted over to one side causing the 'sharpening of teeth' so to say. I replaced the sprocket, spring and shoe assembly to quit the 'snowstorm' that machine was creating.  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 11-30-2006 12:47 AM                        quote: Monte L Fullmer or if you have the flat gate variety Our number 2 has a flat gate, it actually causes the least shedding/dust. But that's out of our 6, yours may be different. And oh what a clatter every time a splice went though. The rattling of the spring loaded bands.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-30-2006 01:24 AM                     I'm with Monte. Check the projector(s) with a fine toothed comb and make sure that everything is aligned properly. Check your intermittent sprocket/pad shoe. Check your upper and lower sprocket pad rollers. Check your pinch roller in your sound head. Be sure there are no flat spots or burrs on any sprocket, pad roller/shoe or film-bearing part. This includes the platters. Also check the gate(s) to be sure they are properly aligned and they are at the right tension. Anything that scuffs the film will take the emulsion off, layer by layer. It will look like the projector is snowing in your booth. Once the print starts shedding, even if you solve the problem that caused it in the first place it will likely shed for the rest of its life. Constant attention with the film cleaner and FilmGuard is probably the only workable solution you are likely to have at your disposal. I suppose you could have the print ultrasonically cleaned and lubricated but you don't want to pay for that! It'd be cheaper for you to trash the print and buy a new one!  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-30-2006 01:39 AM                     Charles, make your upper loop this tall (this loop is at its lowest-it only raises a quarter inch at the highest, so don't worry on upper loop flop up there) and get the upper loop so that the film is entering at the top of the trap assembly straight in-not at an angle. The chatter is caused by the loop being too small and not entering in the trap straight,but more on a sight curve. You are prob threading the flat trap as you do the curved trap, which needs the smaller upper loop. Give this a try...for in a way, flat trap Simplexes are tons quieter than the curve gate variety if the loops are built just right..  |  IP: Logged

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