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Author Topic: Film Guard questions - media pads and application Darren Michael Nemeth Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA Registered: Aug 2005 posted 12-28-2006 01:05 PM                        I am looking for a consensous of first hand knowledge on Media Pads and Film Guard. Going to order a gallon of Film Gaurd and 2 media pads probably by Monday. Media Pads - are they good for one or two cleanings or can you put them in the washing machine and reuse over and over? If resuable, what is the best method of washing them, in your experience. Hand wash and hang dry or machine? Film Guard - I want to despense cleaner from a "solvent safe" plastic hand sprayer to media pads or hand cloth. However, I already have Film Renew in one of these and it has deterioirated two of the pumps innards to the point where they won't work. Can't spray any more unless I find another "solvent safe" pump to put on the bottle. Will Film Guard ruin these, too? If so, what do you used to despense the "right ammount" onto your cloth or Film Tech Media Pads? The vast majority of film I have is 1920s diacetate, nitrate and there are some triacetate also. None of which has ever been cleaned or treated. (!!!)  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-28-2006 01:19 PM                     quote: The vast majority of film I have is 1920s diacetate, nitrate and there are some triacetate also. None of which has ever been cleaned or treated. (!!!) FG works great with all film stock of nitrate, acetate and polyester - and even with 16mm and 8mm films as well.. ..does great in slicking down and removing hardened gelatin from gate rails-shoot a bit on a rag and wipe the rails down. You'll find that FG does quite a lot besides just cleaning and treating film. You'll love the stuff. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-28-2006 02:59 PM                     You won't need a gallon. Just a normal quart kit will clean far more film than a gallon of anything else. Remember, it takes only about an ounce to properly clean a 2 hour 35mm feature. FilmGuard already comes in a suitable spray bottle. You won't need any other container. The ideal method of application is to use a Kelmar web film cleaner, although many people do clean by hand, just remember the rag only needs to be barely damp, not wet or you will end up with a film so slick it will literally jump through the projector since there will be no friction to hold the image steady. The media pads are designed to be used with the Kelmar film cleaner. Without the cleaner, the pads won't do you much good unless you want to try hand cleaning with them. I've never tried that personally. They cannot be rewashed, but the average theater reuses the pads for about 35 passes before throwing them away. There are 8 sets of pads per box at approximately 16.5 feet in length. If you desire to clean a film with both of those products, clean with FilmRenew first, then apply FilmGuard last before projection.  |  IP: Logged Darren Michael Nemeth Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA Registered: Aug 2005 posted 12-28-2006 04:39 PM                        Thanks for the reply. I have one of those Universal Film Cleaner devises sold by eBayer "kinemaman" from time to time. Looks almost like a Kelmar. I figure I can at least McGyver the pad rolls to work with it. Will need more than a quart, too, because nearly all the triacetate has very early stages of VS and all will have to be soaked. Some of the 1920s stuff has slight water damage in spots. I am afraid emulsion may lift if in contact with liquid. Is Film Guard safe in this application? What about the emulsion lift in spots with early stages of nitrate decomp? Nearly all my pre 1930s prints are very dusty and dirty. None will ever be projected, either. WIll order tomorrow. Thanks!  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-28-2006 08:45 PM                        The media pads do work for hand cleaning. Just cut them up into small strips, dampen with FG, and then rewind the film through them. I've done this before and it works fine. The Kelmar cleaner works better and provides more even application, but isn't absolutely necessary to use the product. I have used FG on early diacetate 16mm prints and it works well. Maybe someone else has tried it on nitrate.  |  IP: Logged Darren Michael Nemeth Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Saginaw, Michigan, USA Registered: Aug 2005 posted 12-28-2006 08:53 PM                        What about spots where the emulsion has lifted from the stock? Will Film Guard be okay or smear these sections off?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-29-2006 03:04 AM                     The sad thing about VS is that once the degrading begins, it's irreversable due to the beginning decomposition of the acetate stock when moisture mixes with the acetate ion in the celluose to create acetic acid-hence the "vinegar syndrome". Only way to slow down VS is to have the prints well ventilated so air can move around. But if the containers are sealed, put those silca gel packets, or those KODAK molecular sieves in the containers to absorb moisture. quote: Darren Michael Nemeth Some of the 1920s stuff has slight water damage in spots. I am afraid emulsion may lift if in contact with liquid. Is Film Guard safe in this application? What about the emulsion lift in spots with early stages of nitrate decomp? Nearly all my pre 1930s prints are very dusty and dirty. Film-Guard is just that - to 'guard' the prints for preservation and longetivity purposes (and you don't need to soak the film either-just a nice thin coating will work and will not harm any form of emulsion layers. Also, you'll be amazed on how it will clean those dusty and dirty prints with a couple of passes using FG. - which would make them runnable again. Here, do your reading assignment for the day on the info on Film-Tech and you'll find some interesting information on this product - and good luck. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-29-2006 04:47 AM                     You will find FilmGuard is incredible with water damaged film, provided you apply it liberally to the sides BEFORE you unwind it. Once water damaged film is unwound, it's pretty much over. Once you get the kit if you have any questions feel free to email me. There is no need to submerge the film in FilmGuard. If you do, the film is probably going to be so slick when you pull the film out you will spend a great deal of time wiping the film with dry cloths. Remember, this is a VERY slow evaporating cleaner and about 1 ounce is enough to properly clean a 2 hour 35mm movie. Although I have heard of people who have done it with success, submerging is something I have never bothered trying because I haven't had a print bad enough to ever bother with it. That would be quite the extreme application...but a quick dip in and out of a container of FG just might be ideal for your very old water damaged film. There wouldn't be any need to leave it in there for any length of time though. Just dip it in and remove it a minute later, then give it say an hour to let it totally soak in and then slowly unwind the reel.  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 12-29-2006 08:57 AM                        quote: Brad Miller the average theater reuses the pads for about 35 passes before throwing them away. Hmm, and I've been tossing them after 1 pass, on each side. Total of 6 films cleaned. If this is the case, next year's box should last a good while. Yeah, I'll be changing to a new box of pads on the new year. And a new bottle FG if timing works out right. Good tip on the water damag bit, I have some film that came in to my possession because it's water damaged, but it hasn't been unrolled yet, so maybe I'll try a lil FG on its edges.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-29-2006 02:13 PM                     For water damage you will need to apply FG liberally to the top edge with the film roll laying horizontal, as in sopping wet and let gravity pull it in, then flip the reel and repeat before unrolling. It is also recommended if the water damage is bad to apply FG between rewinds as you are unrolling it too. In the instance of a platter print with a roof leak and a rainstorm, clamp the print and flip it upside down. Apply liberally (spray FG onto a folded up paper towel and wipe so the top is very wet), let it sit for several minutes, flip the print back, wet down the top edge, then as it is paying out to the projector make sure you have a freshly saturated online cleaner. I've saved a couple of dozen prints that would've been junk this way due to roof leaks.  |  IP: Logged Dave Ritchie Film Handler Posts: 65 From: Thames, New Zealand Registered: Oct 2006 posted 12-29-2006 02:43 PM                     I was hoping to buy a media cleaner for my screening room but this is just not possible on my budget at this time- if i apply film guard by hand how affective is this and what is the best way to apply it? [ 12-29-2006, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: Adam Martin ]  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 12-29-2006 07:04 PM                        Dave, get a web style, like a Kelmar, cleaner, not PTC or PTR style cleaners. The media used in the PTR is reusable after a simple washing, but it doesn't outweigh it's shortcomings. I have used both types, and despite some minor issues with our own cleaner (missing parts), I am much more pleased with our Kelmar than the PTC cleaner. Not to say you can't find a similar cleaner by another brand, that's just what we have. We also use filmguard here, which I have no complaints about. The media we have now is filmtech media, which works great, but the plastic spools that it comes on don't want to fit over the rubber piece on the rewind shafts on the cleaner, though ours may be swollen from age. (BTW, anyone know where I can get the replacement rubber bushings at?) I prefer the cardboard spools that came with the previous brand of media, it fits better.  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 12-29-2006 09:34 PM                        I started off using Filmtech media pads for a single pass. Then this site told me that I could turn them around. Then others told me that I could run them several times. Then it was revealed that they could be cut in half. If these tips continue, they may outlast film itself.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-30-2006 02:07 PM                     ..Same as what I would do - cut down media to fit the film being cleaned and would turn the media around to use the other side. Also, if the media wasn't that all dirty, I would use it over for a few times. Yea,PTR units.. - does exactly what the term stand for: Transfers Particles from one end of the print to the other end. ..may work for IMAX prints, but doesn't cut it for standard prints.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 12-30-2006 03:55 PM                     I am the only operator at my theatre that is allowed to handle the film cleaning equipment due to the screw-ups of others! We have 2 Kelmar cleaners, and use the F-T media rolls with the FilmGuard. I usually clean each print twice. Once in awhile, 3 times. Our presentation is absolutely dirt and scratch free. A little FG goes a long way. You really dont need a gallon!  |  IP: Logged

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