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Author
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Topic: Kelmar reel arms - compatible spools?
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Stephen Furley
Film God
![](http://www.film-tech.com/ubbmembers/1277b.jpg)
Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002
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posted 01-03-2007 03:42 AM
I make it 9.525mm. Of course, these are all nominal sizes; the size of the spool hole is always going to be greater than the spindle diameter.
3/8" Kalee spools will fit on a 9mm spindle, though I think they are a very slightly looser fit. I haven't tried putting a 9mm spool on a 3/8 spindle.
Kinoton list both European and American 12.7mm (1/2") spindles for their machines, but I don't know what the difference is. Since the spindle itself is not likely to be different, I assume that it's the size, or position, of the drive pin. Could somebody measure these on an American spindle or spool for me please? Also, how many drive pins do you have, and how many holes in the spool to take it (them)? I am aware of three different types of 1/2" spindles, but I don't know if any of those are the American type. Why on Earth can't they standardise these things? Obviously something bigger than a 5/16" spindle would be needed for large spools, but do we really need:
5/16" with key (common on American machines). 5/16" with drive pin (some early machines). 5/16" with square (like 16mm, but also used for 35mm microfilm). 9mm with drive pin (some European machines, e.g. Kinoton). 3/8" with drive pin (Some British machines, e.g. Kalee). 1/2" with same drive pin as 3/8" (seen once, on a GBN portable). 1/2" with larger drive pin, at greater radius (towers). 1/2" as above, with two drive pins (mainly dual-gauge machines). Something much bigger, about 25mm (Fedi Solo). Something completely weird (BTH Mk.1 SUPA).
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Stephen Furley
Film God
![](http://www.film-tech.com/ubbmembers/1277b.jpg)
Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002
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posted 01-03-2007 07:21 AM
quote: Steve Guttag The European dog pin is indeed larger than the American one. As for standards...the American reels are made to an ANSI/SMPTE standard (241, I believe). What you want is an International standard....that isn't going to happen in a metric versus English measure.
We managesd to get an international standard for 8mm, Super-8, 9.5 and 16mm. 17.5mm Pathe Rural spools were the same in all countries, though there were other older 17.5mm formarts, and I've no idea what they used. Other odd gauges like 28mm were only used by one company, and I suspect that they were universal. The Pathe Rural system had an odd international incompatibility, some countries used a 20 frame optical sound advance, and some 26 frames; don't ask me which was which!
quote: Steve Guttag As to slots in the reel hubs...I HATE them....I wish none existed. There is no reason for them except to tear the ned of the film...Get one wrap around the hub and let friction do the rest.
I agree there is no reason for them, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that I hate them; they don't do any harm if you don't use them, and hardly anybody seems to.
quote: Steve Guttag My only experience with Kinoton reels are their larger reels for their Spool Towers (SPT-5000K)...we got the "fancy" ones that are chromed. They seemed to be quite well built and at the time cost less than Goldberg...even with the exchange rate and freight. Anyway...I had no real complaints with them...they were actually pretty cool.
I've only used the 6k ones, they are also chrome.
I think most of the advantages and disadvantages have been covered, either here or in the other thread on the Cinemeccanica ones a week or two before Christmas. There's no point in repeating them, but I'll add just a couple more. Both types are quite lightweight compared to other types of spools, and have no sharp edges. The Kinoton ones are quite rigid, more so than they look, and do not bend easily, but if you do manage it they stay bent. The Cinemeccanica ones are much less rigid, but the plastic is quite springy; unless you keep them in a bent state for a long time, or expose them to very high temperatures, they will just spring back if you bend them. The Cinemeccanica ones will hold just slightly more film, an extra two or three minutes maybe.
I wouldn't say either has any great advantage over the other, though they are very different.
At the Clocktower we have four of the Kinoton ones and about ten of the Cinemeccanicas, including a couple needing repair because the centres have fallen out. I tend to use the Kinotons for the first half of prints, and the Cinemeccanicas for the second half and for take-up, simply because it's easier for a projectionist who doesn't know the film, and hasn't seen it before, to see how long they have to a changeover.
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