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Topic: Console versus Lamphouse - any suggestions?

Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-08-2007 10:55 AM

I'm working with some folks who are looking to build a new drive-in theatre and they're looking to me for suggestions on equipment.

At my theatre, I have separate lamphouses on pedestals with the rectifier over in the corner. Two of the newest drive-ins I've been to lately use 4kw Strong consoles. Is it just a matter of convenience to have everything in one unit as opposed to individual parts and pieces like I have, or a preference to one versus the other?

Pro's or cons on either?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-08-2007 12:16 PM

Separates are absolutely the superior method if optimization is critical. First, you may choose the individual components that you feel are the best in each category.

Next, you will have a much more difficult, if not impossible time aligning a console with the degree of accuracy that one can achieve with a separate system. Certainly the model of pedestal and console have a great affect on this.

Consoles normally do not hold the projector with as much stability as a pedestal. Normally the plate the arm for the projector mounts to will flex. I can't tell you how many times I've seen console mounted blowers put a vibration all of the way to the projector and cause image stability issues.

Schleping factor...it is easier to move separates...particulalry if stairs and turns are involved.

Service...normally separates are easier to service and in the event a component needs to be replaced due to age, improved technology, complete failure...only that component needs to be changed. How often have you seen a pedestal fail? Lamphouses age the fastest though transformers can become hummy.

Where consoles win are in hooking it all up. Just attach the 3-phase and you are done. Then again, much of the internal wiring often could be improved upon for good service life. This presumes that the automation and such are also in the console. If not, then the console isn't really all that much faster there either. How long does it take to connect the motor, changeover and lamphouse contactor wires? We are talking about hours, not days extra work.

For me at least, the console has many more negatives that more than offset any positives it may bring. Check out the South Branch Cinema 6 photos in the gallery here....you will see most manufacturers represented and it remains an extremely reliable booth to this day.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 01-08-2007 01:33 PM

but, big question: Is the platter for this one house BEHIND the amp rack? If so, wonder why of that horrible decision to do such an install?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-08-2007 03:05 PM

Monte, are you referring to the South Branch? If so, why don't you make sure you know what you are talking about before you speak? The platter is where it is because that is where it fit best. Look at the space between the rack and the wall...it is super easy to thread behind it (just walk through) and there are support rollers to prevent film sag.

As to the non-op side...sorry, no room for the platter...there is a wall there (and then the electrical distribution room for the theatre complex). In any event, there have been no mishaps or complaints about it. While it isn't my preferred place, it was appropriate for this situation.

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-08-2007 03:22 PM

Gosh Steve, what a clean installation...nice!

But, I have to confess, I was a little shocked to see the platter. I would have thought you would have done change-over booths. [Wink]

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-08-2007 06:39 PM

It is always my first choice Phil...and definately the majority of what I install (changeover). Someday I'll do an upload of the AFI/Silver. Theatre #1 (The Historic) has four film projectors and one DLP. It can run 16, 35 and 70mm. It can run two prints or make 2-strip 3-D changeovers. The other two screens have a mere 2-projectors each (35/16) and a DLP.

Steve

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 01-08-2007 07:16 PM

Steve; I agree with all of your points. However, I reached the opposite conclusion on each point. Since every system currently made today was originally made to be a console, then it follows if you take-it-apart that it will work similarly well as seperates.

Really, if there is already a base, I will leave it and use it. If no base, I will go console because of the quick installation and the possibility to prewire and reduce the dependence upon an electrician who is either expensive or worse...not there u ntil next week.

A decent drive in installation is an easy 1-day job with adjustment on screen by midnight. Louis

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-08-2007 08:36 PM

quote: Louis Bornwasser
Since every system currently made today was originally made to be a console

Ooooo...please explain that one. Are you implying that the projectors, soundheads or whatever somehow console biased? There is nothing inherently better about the console and in fact, they tend to be the source of how to cut costs on making the support and light path. They merely give the illusion of speed and ease of installation.

quote: Louis Bornwasser
I will go console because of the quick installation and the possibility to prewire and reduce the dependence upon an electrician who is either expensive or worse...not there u ntil next week.

Okay...I gave you the speed of wiring if the console contains the automation and that one may spend an hour or two wiring the projector/changeover/rectifier switch leg....but the rest of your statement is bogus because:

You can prewire a pedistal too (we do) (and even do a rough alignment if it is benefitial).

The electrican thing is also no better for the console. There are two means we will wire a system in...if the electrican can't be timed at all or may be difficult to work with...we merely specify NEMA outlets to provide and we bring in equipment with twist lock plugs to make it "plug and play." However, normally we can work with the electrican and give them the option of landing all of the high-voltage stuff or give them the option of us landing it and they inspect it prior to closing it up. It goes very fast, either way. Again, what are we talking about for a console/pedestal system? A 3-phase circuit and two 120V 20A circuits or so. This just isn't a great amount of time.

The net result is a better aligned system and normally more bang for the buck unless you believe one manufacturer really makes the best of EVERYTHING. Separates also normally take up less space too.

I can fully appreciate those that have zero time available and aren't going to be paid enough to put in whatever system they install going for the cheapest fastest system possible. The exhibitor that forces this situation deserves the least...that is what they are paying for.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 01-08-2007 11:47 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
Someday I'll do an upload of the AFI/Silver.

I was impressed with the stories in either Boxoffice, or the NATO Focus magazine (can't remember which one) on the preservation of the AFI/Silver Theatre - on how it was so close to demolition to being a full restored theatre. My congrats to this effort.

(sorry Steve in not making my topic reply on the booth layout more definite, but just wonder why the platter wasn't put in place of the amp rack so the film path could be shorter so the operator could catch the rewind platter deck, incase of a mistart being of the STRONG variety.. but who asked me on that install ...)

thx-Monte

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-09-2007 08:55 AM

Monte,

I generally try to have the operator come to the port with both the projection and sound within arm's reach. The platter being beyond the rack is of no consequence. If you are waiting by the projector when the tail runs through, you can still catch it and walk it through. Again, a decent amount of space was left between the wall and the rack so even "plus sized projectionists" may pass through.

As to the Strongness (actually Potts brand here) of the platters...the projectors have a nice slow ramp up time so start up is never an issue.

The owners of the theatre also keep everything up real well. They are farmers primarily and understand the value of keeping equipment in good repair rather than paying big bucks to prematurely replace it. They Film Guard all their prints and that has lead to incredibly long skate/runner life in the Kinotons too.

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 01-09-2007 08:57 AM

I prefer my platter locations on the non operator side of the screen. Having installed a zillion Potts type platters, projectionist training + slow start on the projector, we are not chasing the disk or stepping on film in front of the view window. Our exception is during film fests with a Union operator so he can closely monitor "a one time only" presentation....or if we run out of booth space [Smile]

We forget another nice option, the column style on the Kinoton FP, real rapid and easy to install. [beer]

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 01-09-2007 09:23 AM

Being an independent, I started with someone else's cast-offs, and upgraded as I could afford it over the years. If I had the money to get the "ultimate system" in one purchase, then run it until the whole thing died, maybe I'd look at a console... but it would have to be pretty impressive. I doubt I'd touch a vertical lamp version though.... especially not for a drive-in... and I'd sure be bummed if a major upgrade came along in 5 years or so that I couldn't get because the console boxed everything in.

When I bought my place, 2 of the projectors didn't belong to the theatre. I replaced them with Brenkerts & RCA soundheads.

Over 20 years, the soundheads went to Simplex, the projectors went from various Brenkert models to XLs, my lamphouses went from ORC to X-60 to Ultra-80 (on one) to Big Sky on all 3 and my power supplies went from ORC to Strong to Strong switchers. We've gone from white light to red reader and added digital.

If we had started with everything in a 20 year-old console, that might have been problematic. Today, the only original equipment here are those bases!

I can see this being a personal experience kind of choice... but the pedestal-method seems to have worked best for me.

As for drive-ins in general: I've looked at a lot of the photos on that "drive-in site", and I could probably count on one hand the number of booths that use consoles. I suppose that's partly because a lot of them are 40+ year-old converted arc systems?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-09-2007 09:49 AM

Agreed with Phil--that's a very nice installation, Steve!

From the point of view of an operator, I prefer separate bases and lamphouses, as that arrangement is usually less bulky, especially in small booths, especially if the rectifiers are installed in an adjacent room, rather than next to the bases. It is also easy to adjust the projection angle by turning the big wheel--this may be important in theatres with top masking for some formats or in older theatres with a front screen and a rear screen.

Note that some bases are better than others--the Century models make it very easy to align the lamphouse to the projector, whereas the Simplex LL-2 and Motiograph models don't allow the lamp table to be adjusted independently.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-09-2007 11:52 AM

Richard, I agree on placing the platter on the Non-op side of the projector for most booths. At South Branch, only 2 could not due to walls/stairway being in the way.

I have mixed views of the rectifiers being beside the projector and in another room. Adjusting the rectifier in a different room makes setting the current more guess work. Also it has the heavy guage wire going the longest.

As to the LL-2 you have limited lamp table adjustments and with washers (and possibly longer screws) you have a little more adjustment. However, I agree, the LL-2 is not my favorite pedestal. I like the Century, the LL-1 if someone else is carrying it and Ballantyne 2500B. I'd like the Ballantyne more if its adjusting nut would be a wheel instead.

Steve

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 01-09-2007 12:24 PM

Out of the almost 100 screens I service, I only have one pedistal/lamphouse (I don't know why this one screen is different from the rest in that building). In general, I have no problems with consoles.

quote: Steve Guttag
Separates are absolutely the superior method if optimization is critical. First, you may choose the individual components that you feel are the best in each category.

I have seen Christie consoles with Christie projectors but CNA automation, Christie consoles with Simplex and Century projectors, and even Strong consoles with Irem power supplies. I don't purchase equipment, but my understanding is you can specifiy whatever equipment you want and if it comes from a manufacturer other than the console manufacturer, it will be shipped to the console manufacturer and installed before the console is shipped to your theater.

quote: Steve Guttag
Service...normally separates are easier to service and in the event a component needs to be replaced due to age, improved technology, complete failure...only that component needs to be changed. How often have you seen a pedestal fail? Lamphouses age the fastest though transformers can become hummy.

No, I don't see how a pedistal would fail. But if something in the lamphouse fails (the reflector, ignitor, etc...) wouldn't you replace that component rather than the whole lamphouse? And if a console power supply fails it can be replaced, too. I don't see how service is an issue.

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