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Author Topic: Who Dupes Positives? Cody Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 214 From: Edinburgh, IN, USA Registered: Jun 2004 posted 01-09-2007 06:21 AM                        Hello all, I have a few snipes I'd like to get duped, but I recently found out that Filmack no longer does positive duping. Does anyone know of another lab that does this? Thanks, cody  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-09-2007 06:55 AM                        Try A1 labs in NYC. Most (all?) of their business is 16mm, but they might do 35mm as well.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 01-09-2007 07:59 AM                        The only colour reversal film sold in 35mm motion picture lengths still available that I know of is Kodak 5285. The only other way you could dupe these prints would be to have an internegative made from your original, and a new print made from that. If you can go to the expense of doing that it could be worth it, because contact-printing release print to reversal is duping two high contrast, unmasked elements, so you will lose a lot of detail in the highlights and shadows. Anyone who has seen 16mm schools films from the '60s and '70s which were shot on Kodachrome, cut into A/B rolls and then release prints made on Kodachrome straight from the original will know what I'm talking about. Secondly, once you've got the interneg, it'll be a lot cheaper to have extra prints made from it, as standard release print stock and processing chemistry can be used, which is much cheaper than reversal.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 01-09-2007 08:44 AM                     Reversal duping is more of a dead issue due to digital editing and post production not requiring "one off" or work print copies for 35mm.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 01-09-2007 06:30 PM                       Copyright issues aside, use the lab Derek Maxwell used: Lab Link, NYC. They will go the interneg/pos print route. Be prepared to pay big $$$, though. Screen Attractions could do it for you and it would be via a proprietary digital process, but for those short lengths it would cost even more per unit than Lab Link (unless you have an hour or so of film, then the per-ft. cost goes way down). Also, if you plan on selling prints... there's the matter of music rights, which you have to research. Production libraries consider these new productions, since you are not the original producer. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 01-10-2007 04:05 AM                        Good point, Tim: I was guessing he just wanted dupes of worn out snipes for use in his own theatre. About the first thing every lab you ever send anything to does is to ask you to sign a contract. One of the clauses basically says that you (the customer) are either the copyright owner, or have the permission of the copyright owner for the stuff to be copied; and that if any legal shit gets airborne for any reason, it hits your fan, not theirs. If they're being paranoid, they might even demand clearance from the actual copyright owner in advance (as they did, for example, when I sent some regional BBC TV stuff to have a 35mm optical blowup print made from a 16 cut neg and sepmag for a festival screening). If you send an original 35mm release print of Star Wars to a lab, ask them to strike an interneg and 500 prints from it and ship the lot to an address in Beijing, for example, don't expect them to take your word for it that the job's kosher! Mind you, about the one good thing about reversal dupes from prints is that the contrast would be so high and the gamma so low that it would probably obliterate the CAP code in the dupe!  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 01-10-2007 08:53 AM                     Also the location of the emulsion ( reverse from normal cinema print ) if done on a contact printer versus an optical printer if you plan to do a reversal dupe. Last reversal print I saw was an awful Van Damme movie which did not play in the USA; the increased contrast actually artisically enhanced the show The local projectionist in the Latin American cinema complained about having to refocus after the trailers and the stock was noisy though the gate.  |  IP: Logged Dave Bird Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 777 From: Perth, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jun 2000 posted 01-10-2007 04:12 PM                        I was thinking of you guys Tim. When you say big $$$, how much (ballpark)? I have a "welcome to the drive-in" snipe from back in the day, maybe 30-45 seconds, but currently unplayable. But, it's customized, Filmack I think, so it would be nice to run again this year. I grabbed this thing a few years ago when a realtor was going to cut it up and give it to his friends. I've just realized I still have it and it appears I will be operating this place all these years later.....  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 01-10-2007 05:01 PM                        70-80 feet or so ... in my part of the world, you'd be looking at about the equivalent of around $1.50 a foot for striking an interneg from the original positive, followed by $0.75 for release printing. I simply have no idea what a positive to reversal direct contact print would be. All this assumes a one-light, continuous contact print of both pic and track. If, for whatever reason, a separate track neg is necessary or desirable, you can add a track neg at $1/foot ish, plus possibly rerecording costs. If you simply want one more print, you might have trouble finding a lab that would want to take on a job that small. If you do decide to go for a reversal dupe, you might have to wait a while until a bigger job comes in and they can do yours in the same batch. As a general rule, 400ft is the smallest length in which the labs can buy raw stock, and for something as unusual as reversal they'd probably have to make up a batch of E6 chemistry specially. It might be worth approaching a lab which specialises in archival work, and is therefore used to dealing with small scale jobs rather than just running off several thousand copies of the latest blockbuster through high speed panel printers. Friends who work in US archives all speak very highly of Colorlab, for example.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-10-2007 05:08 PM                        I'll second Tim's recommendation of Magno Lab-Link, although I don't think that they do reversal work. They processed and printed 16mm dailies for a short film which I am currently editing. Their prices aren't the cheapest, but they're far from the most expensive. They do good work and their staff is helpful. The number that I have for them is 212-302-7373. They are associated with Magno Sound, which does quality video transfer work (among other services).  |  IP: Logged Cody Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 214 From: Edinburgh, IN, USA Registered: Jun 2004 posted 01-10-2007 06:24 PM                        Hey guys, Thanks for all your help. I have a few trailers and such(mainly drive in), I'd like to run, but I don't want to wear out my films. I'd love to be able to get enough dupes to sell to everyone, but I have no idea to find out how to get the rights to the musical tracks. I'm going to call a few of these places next week to find some info. Thanks again, Cody  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 01-10-2007 09:45 PM                       Dave, if that's the "...and a hearty welcome to our Drive-in Theatre", it's a stock Filmack trailer (with v/o by the late Ed Roberts, fwiw). I think they still sell prints of it. Cody, post some frame scans of your footage. I may be able to identify them for you.  |  IP: Logged Dave Bird Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 777 From: Perth, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jun 2000 posted 01-11-2007 01:28 PM                        Tim, I think it's a customized Filmack. From the bushes we see mountains in the background, about 3 rows of cars and a screen with silhouetted man and woman. The wording then scrolls from the top.... Welcome To PORT ELMSLEY DRIVE-IN The Show Place of The Golden Triangle We Hope You Will Make This A Weekly Visit It ends with... BRING THE FAMILY BRING FRIENDS We Hope You Have A Wonderful Time To Our American Friends Happy Holiday It would be neat to run it again, and it might limp through with some Perfix tape, but the perfs are worn, brittle and even missing in some cases. Would be a nice touch to see it restored and with the missing start/end which undoubtedly got shortened each time they spliced it....  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 01-11-2007 03:24 PM                       What if I just made you a new version of it? I can put it against your original background(s).  |  IP: Logged Dave Bird Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 777 From: Perth, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jun 2000 posted 01-11-2007 10:10 PM                        Sounds fun Tim. Maybe we can even put cartoon versions of my family trundling off to the snack bar. We'll talk more as soon as I get some papers to sign.....  |  IP: Logged

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