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Author Topic: Movie Build up. Raymond Christie Film Handler Posts: 16 From: Guymon, Ok Registered: Nov 2006 posted 04-16-2007 05:38 PM                        What will happen if a movie is built up too loose? Is there a high risk of a brain wrap?  |  IP: Logged Alex Grueneberg Expert Film Handler Posts: 125 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Aug 2004 posted 04-16-2007 05:40 PM                        In my experience, no. Not at all. It may be slightly more difficult to move to a different platter though, if thats even a concern.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-16-2007 06:54 PM                     ...using a pizza board makes easy work in tranferring loosely wound prints from one deck to the other. Clamps, well you are at their mercy.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-16-2007 07:35 PM                        I was always told that it was risky to make up a print and then move it to a different platter without running it at least once. I believe that the reason had to do with static issues on payout, but I may be mis-remembering this. Was anyone else ever warned about doing this? If so, why? In any case, I'm sufficiently paranoid that I don't do it.  |  IP: Logged Jon Miller Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 973 From: San Diego, CA, USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 04-16-2007 07:44 PM                     For the last San Diego Latino Film Festival we had to make up quite a few prints on one platter and move them to other screens for showing. Never had any problems moving those prints using "pizza boards." Also, never heard such a warning about running a print once before moving it. Maybe the practice of bench-inspecting onto 6000' reels before transferring to the platter helps...  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-16-2007 07:47 PM                    I think the warning had to do with the print getting cinche scratches because it's wound too tight. But we have never had that problem, and we move almost every print to a different platter right after building it.  |  IP: Logged Peter Mork Expert Film Handler Posts: 181 From: Newton, MA, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 04-16-2007 07:50 PM                     These days, I often make up a print on one platter and move it to another. Where I work there are three separate booths but I like to use the one with a workbench for this task because I can sit down and leisurely wind film onto big reels, inspecting as I go, then run the big reels to a platter and move the whole thing to where it needs to go. I don't get loose winds doing this but you might. In any case have never noticed a static problem, or at least a worse one than I ever get.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 04-16-2007 09:52 PM                     If you're REALLY worried about the static issue how about building up onto a pizza board? Just stick the ring through the board and into the platter; no different than running a movie onto the board.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-16-2007 10:41 PM                     quote: Chris Slycord If you're REALLY worried about the static issue... ...interesting thing is that I do believe that the polyester stock has been dramatically upgraded to prevent such a condition and to where the static conditions are now and long ago..ancient history. I haven't had static issues for a good 4 years now, but I do remember when poly was first introduced as the new base stock for films..and did we have static problems back then... quote: Scott Norwood Was anyone else ever warned about doing this? If so, why? I've heard it before on rare occasion from other booth operators in other cinemas, but I only took it as an old wive's tale since I figured that it was due to the inexperience and training of handling film is what brought this 'warning' throughout the networks. Plus, due to the inexperiences and 'robotic' training that is now involved in the majority of these cinemas, where if a ruling comes across, there is no questions asked, just do what was told...to make things easy and simple. John Pytlak can chime in on this one for he'd would know more about this topic. I do that also - build on one deck, then scoop and move the prints to other decks, in which I've never had any probs with this. Why I do all of this scooping is that one of my platters is right next to the Kelmar bench, so while one reel is winding on the platter, I prep the next reel for building. I get done faster this way, plus have the best light for assembly here.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-17-2007 01:52 PM                        i'm wary of moving prints any more than i have to. i think it's probably the biggest culprit in getting dirt on our prints. our upstairs platters simply don't take up too tightly and the film will flip flop a bit when it's moved. i do use a pizza board when moving a film from one of these platters, and the added stiffness reduces the problem but doesn't eliminate it. some feel the board makes the print too heavy and don't use it, unfortunately. i thought the deal with moving a freshly-built print was that the wind tension might have varied around the mid-show splice, making it more likely that the print will lose its integrity there.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 04-17-2007 02:14 PM                     If there is ANY slippage when a print is being moved, then it is getting scratched. They are called cinch scratches in that they are tiny dot or dash scratches and can occur in any direction on screen depending on how the film slips when moved. Platters with weak center rings such as Strong are major culprits to this sort of damage. There will be people who will claim that the above statement is bs because they have "never seen any damage", but the fact of the matter is that most theaters are underlit. When a print is projected on a system that puts out minimum brightness spec or excedes it, suddenly all of these marks show up...and it isn't pretty. Also once a print is moved, it is often no longer properly centered or a true circle. That can be quite the issue towards the end of the film while it is paying out. People who have experienced brain wraps and thrown prints (obviously not using FG or safety rings), will notice it happens most often after a print has been moved.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-17-2007 05:20 PM                     ...another thing to consider, if the worry on static cling is still an issue with some locations, is NOT to drive the AC in the booth too far down. Granted, it's nice to be in a cool atmosphere, but you drive that AC down to a very cool level, you're drying out the air real bad and dry air promotes any sort of static. Why IMAX booths are under a very strict control when it comes to humidity situations - don't want that big film stock to experience any cling..let alone with the speed that film travels. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Matt Barth Film Handler Posts: 46 From: Albuquerque, NM 87109 Registered: Oct 2005 posted 04-17-2007 06:39 PM                     The highest risk with a loose print for me was if was REALLY bad a little static could cause a chunk of film to shift to the brain and then the entire print could start shifting around. I did have a bad wrap once because of this but it could have been avoided had we a)not moved the print or b) I'd kept a better eye on it in the later reels. I believe most the problem there was in the booths I was in (one had the platters filed so they had little grip) though. ---Matt  |  IP: Logged Raymond Christie Film Handler Posts: 16 From: Guymon, Ok Registered: Nov 2006 posted 04-21-2007 02:43 PM                        I had to move a print of Grindhouse. Do they make a pizza board big enough for a print that size. But anyway, I had to fix a splice in it because it was bad and the movie wound really loose. It's all good now because that stupid movie is gone. Thank God! We had too many problems with it.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 04-21-2007 03:38 PM                     Of course they make pizza boards that size. You can make a pizza board however big you want. The only limiter on how big you make your board is the size of your platters.  |  IP: Logged

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