my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Cleaning up prints (Page 1)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: Cleaning up prints Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 04-27-2007 01:25 AM                        We run films starting either day-and-date or any time from 2 to 13 weeks after release. A print with DTS is no problem but Dolby Digital prints vary from low error rates (1-4) through to Fail throughout. We ran a print starting in week 3 where the image was perfect – not dirty or scratched - but the Dolby Digital track was unplayable from spool 2-5. After 5 screenings with FilmGuard we were able to regain most of the DD audio and by the 10th run through the whole film stayed in digital. No discs were available. Last night we started a print 11 weeks after release and the DD track is showing error rates of 7 and 8 (the manual says the readout goes to 7 then F). Apart from a couple of blips during the first screening, the DD holds in there. Again the image is fine and the second run through showed enough improvement in the audio to trust the DD and not switch to SR. We also started a print that was quite dirty (10 weeks out) and it has some fine baseline scratches on the far edges (Scope) but the DD is showing error rates of just 3-5. trailers on the front are showing 1-3. This is one of the frustrations of running older prints. Fortunately, most of them look good on the screen. When a film is more than 5 weeks old, getting and building a replacement is a lucky dip. Without discs, you can’t promote your screening as digital. FilmGuard does help but it isn’t an instant cure. Perhaps Dolby literature should state that their track can not be guaranteed for more than 30 screenings and used prints must be run with FilmGuard at least twice before advertising them as digital to the public.  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 04-27-2007 03:45 AM                     In my experience, one of the first things to be noticeably deteriorated on prints is the DD soundtrack. No matter what happens, eventually it begins to get problems. And I noticed the error rate of an 8 once as well, which was a surprise. Though not as big as the time I opened up one of our CP500's and since I wondered why it wasn't playing in digital. The card displayed the following letters in succession: O H E L P. I knew when the card was asking for help that something was clearly messed up. It made me chuckle a bit, though.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-27-2007 04:01 AM                     ..course, the sad thing about DD is where it's located at on the film-inbetween the sprocket holes,- and after the few runs a print goes through, especially from the pressure of the trap and gate and the intermittent shoe contacts (got any worn parts in these areas, by any chance?), that area of the film gets pretty worn, and along with aging LED's, the error rate begins to climb...  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 04-27-2007 08:09 PM                        Ours is a penthouse reader. I hate to think what results we'd get with a basement reader. The miracle is that we can (but not always) actually recover DD if we run the print through the cleaner enough times. The suppliers' solution seems to be to blame the customer. Now we are told that DCI is the answer.  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 04-27-2007 08:26 PM                     quote: Ron Curran The miracle is that we can (but not always) actually recover DD if we run the print through the cleaner enough times. Indeed, this is one of the benefits of using Film Guard. Not sure if this was one of the purposes it was designed for, or if it's just a positive side-effect, but it does the job, nonetheless. Brad, care to comment?  |  IP: Logged Malcolm John Metcraft Film Handler Posts: 7 From: Kooringal, Wagga Wagga NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2004 posted 04-27-2007 08:34 PM                     Optical tracks don't seem to have this problem I find them reliable so why change if it works.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-27-2007 08:58 PM                        Horse and buggy works just fine for transportation too, but I'll bet you drive a car.  |  IP: Logged Alex Grueneberg Expert Film Handler Posts: 125 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Aug 2004 posted 04-27-2007 09:36 PM                        Oo. Burn.. I received print #3 of The TV Set in the other night with enough fresh shoe polish across the reel changes optical and DD tracks to clean up my boots. I thought the DD was totaled for sure but after some gentle work with film guard it came all off, and none of the reels changes dropped out! I was really impressed though. Ran at 3, but I'm sure it will go up. ..Yet for some reason FG still gets smack at my theater.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-28-2007 01:56 PM                        So the assumption is that with an reading of say 2 and 3 the digital audio is where it should be, is there any noticable sound degredation when the error correction is up at 6 and 7? Or is the audio output just either there or not there without and actual descernable sound difference between low correction and high correction rates?  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 04-28-2007 05:38 PM                     In Dolby Digital, "2" and "7" sound the same. But at "7", any defect encountered is more likely to result in a drop-out. I'm a little bit surprised that offline cleaners to address these problems are not more prevalent... (I mean, I know they aren't, and I know that commercially available offline cleaners are stratospherically priced...) --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 04-28-2007 08:08 PM                     I'd say it's pretty easy to notice the difference. If a digital soundtrack starts to go and I clean our auditoriums, I'll notice during the credits that the music tends to have a noticeable "warble" in the sound. Though I'll not notice it just walking in and hearing dialog usually.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-28-2007 08:30 PM                     the warble is the fact that the delay is not set acuratley and one hears the toggling at high speed between analogue and digital  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 04-28-2007 11:25 PM                     Really? Because I've noticed it happen when the processor wasn't showing switching between formats. But maybe it was switching too fast for the processor to show.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 04-28-2007 11:35 PM                     quote: Chris Slycord But maybe it was switching too fast for the processor to show. Why the usage of opaque tape is terribly wrong for DD presentations..processor can't switch fast enough for the one frame that the encoding can't be read to swing back to optical, thus a nasty 'bloop' in the sound.. Even the usage of 'zebra' tape can be wrong as well if applied incorrectly. Plus, if the location are using that "splicemark" tape and not knowing that the thin yellow side goes over the digital part of the film so the DD track isn't covered,whereas the thick yellow side is opposite soundtrack side...you're asking for problems as well..  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 04-28-2007 11:46 PM                        We stopped using opaque tape years ago. No boot polish, no splicemark, no Zebratape, no post-it-notes... just clear tape. Once you get used to it, finding reels isn't really a problem. Of course, you know that if you spray the entire film pack with Film Guard, then use an ultra-violet light and yellow goggles, the clear tape shows up immediately. Learned that one from a CSI episode!  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.