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Author Topic: What do I need to go Dolby Digital Paul Gordon Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 580 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2005 posted 05-09-2007 07:29 AM                        A small theatre wants to go dolby digital as about half the films they play are arthouse/foriegn with only DD on the film. Their setup is a Cp55 with a SRA5 w/ two cat 280's cards. What do they need to get this done? I can get my hands on a DA20 but its not cheap ($4000.00 CND) also I guess they need a Split Surround card for the Cp55 as they only have a 241 card now, are they easy to find? any help would be great. Also they are going to get dual basements readers for DD and Analog (Kelmar or Component?) Thanks  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 05-09-2007 07:36 AM                     I don't know the CP-55 very well, I've only seen one once, co I can't comment on necessary card upgrades etc. Are your amps, speakers etc. up to the job? we only have analogue on film, which works fine, but we had problems when we added a DMA8 plus to go with the digital projector. The speakers in general, and the sub in particular, didn't like it; looks like we're going to need some upgrades. I think going digital is the last upgrade you should do to a sound system; get everything else right first (if it's not already).  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-09-2007 08:03 AM                     If that DA-20 comes with the reader than 4000cdn is not all that bad of a price, but without a reader you will need to add another about 2500cdn or more to that... then you are half way to a new CP-650 which ouwld be the best route if you can! Used DA-20's will command a high price as they are out of production. Assuming the rest of your system is up to digital you will need a 441 card which is easily installed in your 55 to take advantage of the split surrounds and possibly additional power amps in order to properly split up the surround channel. I say jump on it... there are not many DA-20's around.  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 05-09-2007 08:14 AM                     I think you have covered the basics, DA20's have been phased out, so a second hand one looks cheap compared to a new 650. Obviously you do have a good speaker system? resonable acoustics, sub ect and an additional amp for the extra surround channel and an easy way to reconfigure the surround speakers wiring ect. Stephen is correct, the speakers and acoustics can provide the most dramatic and noticable improvement to the way a cinema sounds. So if you have great analogue sound, digital is a bonus. If you want to upgrade because it does not sound great. Adding digital wont make a noticable improvement. [ 05-09-2007, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Cameron Glendinning ]  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-09-2007 08:24 AM                     Cameron said, "I think you have covered the basics, DA20's have been phased out, so a second hand one looks cheap compared to a new 650." That confuses me a bit. DA20s have been discontinued, so the value of a secondhand DA20 has increased, because there is still demand. So, in general, a CP650 is a more appealing solution today than it was a year ago. $4k CDN is a pretty good deal (around $3.6k USD). They were a bit north of $5k USD when discontinued, and I hear they command around those prices still. There's also a Cat.700 in the forsale forum right now... --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-09-2007 08:43 AM                        In a 2-machine booth, you would also need motor-start relays installed to control the changeover logic in the DA20. Which brings this to mind: are the relays actually needed, or would it be sufficient to replace the motor switches with double-pole switches and use the second pole to control the DA20? Also, the USL/BACP reader works quite well and may be cheaper than Dolby readers (assuming that you want penthouse readers).  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 05-09-2007 08:45 AM                     quote: Cameron Glendinning If you want to upgrade because it does not sound great. Adding digital wont make a noticable improvement. And could sound worse if the rest of the system isn't up to handling the increased dynamic range of the digital tracks. If everything else is up to scratch, then go for it; the price sounds pretty reasonable. I seem to remember that when the DA-10 and CAT 699 were introduced the cost was about 20,000 pounds, but I think that included installation, and I don't know if it was for one machine, or a pair.  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-09-2007 09:53 AM                     Dolby actually is making it a monopoly with the CP650D now offering the only solution for DD because you cannot use a cheaper processor with a Digital Adapter! With all the D Cinema hype though is hard to be able to attempt to release a new Digital Adapter like the DA20. RoHS played a big part in the discontinuation of the DA20 and unfortunately as far as I know and some other people in here said, Dolby has no plans on releasing a substitute to the DA20. In an Art house though, I would not recommend Digital system. Here in Cyprus we did an installation last summer with DTS XD10P and JBL range speakers in a college cinema where they mostly play European films which usually don't have DD and are very very happy with the quality of sound. I believe that a good Reverse scan reader like a BACP and a well equalised analog system will sound very good. If you do not have a Reverse scan reader installed on your projectors, perhaps you could first try installing a reverse scan reader and see if there is any improvement on the sound. Now also there are other milion reasons why a cinema might sound bad but lets not get into that. Perhaps you could mention what brand of speakers you have, how many, what is your projector brand e.t.c. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-09-2007 12:10 PM                     Actually I think they are in left field not to license the DD playback scheme to other companies like USL, they'd make a fortune as they have done with Pro-Logic and other broadcast schemes. It is somewhat of a monopoly but then you do have a choice to go with DTS if disks are avaialble for your films. If Dolby made a replacement for the DA-20 you'd see CP-650 sales drop considerably but it could be quite inexpensive to produce a relacement and it would be just a single rack space unit. Mark  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-09-2007 12:19 PM                     Dolby SHOULD make a replacement for the DA20. The problem as I said before is the big hype about D Cinema which will NEVER LAST!!!!! Demetris  |  IP: Logged Paul Gordon Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 580 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2005 posted 05-09-2007 12:50 PM                        What about a used Cp500? would that do the trick?  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 05-09-2007 03:00 PM                     quote: Paul Gordon Their setup is a Cp55 with a SRA5 w/ two cat 280's cards. What do they need to get this done? You will also need a cat 441 card (to replace the existing 241) and you will need to do some modification to the backplane of the CP55. quote: Paul Gordon What about a used Cp500? would that do the trick Make sure it is a CP500D which has the SRD playback hardware inside (you will know by looking, it will have the card with the single digit LED display in it) -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 05-09-2007 10:31 PM                     quote: The problem as I said before is the big hype about D Cinema which will NEVER LAST!!!!! Yes the Hype will disappear, but the projectors will continue to replace 35mm, and eventually be way better than 35mm, just don't hold your breath.  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-10-2007 12:09 AM                     quote: Cameron Glendinning Yes the Hype will disappear, but the projectors will continue to replace 35mm, and eventually be way better than 35mm, just don't hold your breath. Erm... Won't happen 1. Because the film is drawn from the original negative thus there is no deterioration 2. Because Digital media is compressed in any way you see it. You can compress and reach to a high level but NOT film standard although today the difference to a customers' eye is not noticable.  |  IP: Logged Paul Trimboli Master Film Handler Posts: 274 From: Perth Western Australia Registered: Dec 2002 posted 05-10-2007 04:39 AM                     Demetris that is how it happens currently, but soon or at some point it will all be shot electronically and compression will become much less of an issue as storage and speed of storage increases. Digital cinema is here to stay, just how much longer 35mm has is the question....although I would say in 10 years it will still be here.  |  IP: Logged

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