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Author Topic: Running with the lamphouse open Christopher Meredith Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Jackson, MS, USA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 05-21-2007 10:34 AM                        When I came into work Saturday evening, I was told that projector #8 (our big house, 4kW) was "too hot." Upon inspection, it was immediately clear that the roof exhaust fan was not running. The console was way too hot to touch and the heat was ripping off the entire unit. It was running Shrek and had about 20 minutes left so I let it finish. Since then, I've been running it with the back panel removed and the side panel open, with an industrial fan blowing into the side and another sucking air out the back. We had to rig up som shades to prevent the excess light from spilling into auditoriums, but this has kep the unit sufficiently cool until a new fan can arrive tomorrow morning. Unfortunately, other projectionists here are scared to death by this arrangement and have made their complaints known. They are trained enough to run the booth properly but know next to nothing about how the machines actually work. (The second-most trained guy, next to me, when he saw the projector was running hot was convinced the projector belt needed changing!) Anyway, I was wondering about everyone's experiences having top run in thsi compromised fashion. Personally, I am not a bit concerned by this setup. I find it far safer than the alternative, and far preferable to being down our big house on the opening weekend of Shrek 3. Any thought?  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 05-21-2007 11:00 AM                        There are a lot of people here, who can pick this apart better than I, but... I'm leaning toward your other projectionists' attitude about this. An "industrial fan" might pull the heat that's radiated to the sides, but may not do much for the bulb seals. If that bulb blows... for ANY reason, related to the failure of the fan or not, you're likely to have glass flying everywhere. If any of that so much as touches one of your staff, things could get really exciting around there... especially for the lawyers. Having that door open is a risky service issue, even with a cold bulb. Intentionally leaving it open, then running the thing AND allowing people in the room with it... well, I hope the company insurance is paid up! Another issue here, is whether you were authorized to put your company at-risk like this. Modifying a lamp like that is a decision I would never allow an employee to make on his own... especially since I carry all the liability and he carries none. Your intentions may have been honorable (keeping the screen up), but you probably should have had something like that authorized... in writing, by someone very close to the top. I saved a show like that... once... for the same reasons, with about the same time left on the show. At the end of the performance, that screen was officially down until I'd replaced the blower.... AND the bulb. I wasn't ready to risk that it hadn't been overly stressed by the experience. However, in that case, it was my theatre, my lamphouse, my bulb, my choice... and I cleared everyone out of there but me.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-21-2007 11:25 AM                     With a cover removed the odds are electrical parts are exposed which is leaving you liable should someone get hurt also air must go out the stack opening in many cases to ensure the correct directional flow of air inside the lamphouse I also wonder why the lamphouse didn't shut down with the blower dead as the sail switch should have done that also to run with the covers off usually means defeating safety switchs  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-21-2007 11:28 AM                     I'm with Jack. To save a show, OK with reservations. But, until you can get that blower back in operation, the house is down! The metal side and back panels are for more than just keeping the light in. The help direct the cooling to the lamp and they also protect you from schrapnel damage if the lamp should ever explode. Trust me: You DO NOT want to be within 20 feet of a xenon lamp if it explodes! Yeah! I said 20 FEET! Stop jerking around and get that blower repaired!  |  IP: Logged Christopher Meredith Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Jackson, MS, USA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 05-21-2007 11:31 AM                        Perhaps I should clarify. The blowers that directly cool the bulb are functional. It is only the console exhaust that is down. The bulb is being directly cooled as normal. Gordon, yes, I did have to defeat 2 safety switches to run with the doors open. Also, these units do not have a sail swicth for the roof stack. It appears they used to, but no longer do. The units at my previous theater did not have them either. (Actually, at that theater, 8 of the 2kw units didn't even have roof exhaust at all!) I am aware of the liability issues involved. But if the bulb doesn't explode and no one touches the electrical components, that becomes a moot point, no? I guess my question is from a technical perspective. Should I be concerned about an equipment failure due to running this way?  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-21-2007 11:53 AM                     No. You're missing the point. The lamphouse doors keep the air flow INSIDE and make sure it blows on the LAMP, not all out into the room. Even with the blower blowing on the lamp, it might not get enough air to cool it the way it's supposed to be. Yes, you SHOULD be concerned about the increased chance of failure. quote: Christopher Meredith But if the bulb doesn't explode and no one touches the electrical components, that becomes a moot point, no? But, if the bulb DOES explode YOU will become moot! Have you ever heard the words "Joint and Severable Liability?" You defeated TWO safety mechanisms, designed to protect people from just the sort of danger you are worried about? That kind of thing will earn you a Darwin Award! It's YOUR neck that's on the chopping block, RIGHT NOW! Basically, you're just lying there hoping the axe doesn't fall! Why don't you paint a dotted line around your neck while you're at it?! Just quit dicking around and get somebody to go up there and check it! It's probably just a worn out belt. A can of spray-on belt dressing might get you back up and running until you call the repair man. For the amount of effort that is required to go up on the roof to check the blower, you're putting yourself and a lot of other people in all kinds of danger!  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: Boulder Creek, CA. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 05-21-2007 11:53 AM                     If the "bulb coolers" were functioning the unit wouldn't be that hot. That roof stack is essential in cooling it. I'd put those industrial fans on your roof in place of the appropriate blower so as to create the correct airflow. A 4k house like that should have every safe-guard known to man on it for safety's sake, replace your sail switches. Incidentally you are at immense risk of that bulb failing in a catastrophic manner that will include physical damage to your lamp house. We all understand you want to keep your shows running, it's commendable however the safety of your projection staff takes precedence. Best of luck.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 05-21-2007 12:14 PM                     I understand your position, but I would still agree with people who would not continue running in this way. Although I don't know the make of the console, most of them require the side panels on to keep the air flowing in the right places. Just because one blower is running doesn't mean everything is OK. You are forcing a risky decsion on other people if it explodes, in addition to maybe overheating a $1200 or so reflector. The fact that you did not know the sail switches had been removed shows you either are new at projecting or have not inspected your projection room as should be done. If you are new, then please heed the advise given here and don't get defensive. If you are not new to projection, than note that the reason I am a little harsh is that this is the kind of poor operation that has the industry in the poor state it's in. Use this as a learning lesson, and find a portable blower that can easily fit on the stack to get through emergencies  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 05-21-2007 12:23 PM                        quote: Christopher Meredith I guess my question is from a technical perspective. Should I be concerned about an equipment failure due to running this way? I think the point here is that the technical side of this problem is a lesser issue. Yes, you might get away with it. However, there are lots of things you CAN do, even though you SHOULDN'T. Therefore, this becomes a judgment issue that bears on how maturely you approach your job. Yes, you kept your show on the screen. However, to do that, you bypassed safety components and intentionally operated potentially dangerous equipment in a manner that could unpredictably cause damage and injury. I seriously doubt that any booth manager is allowed a call like that, and that is the main point of my argument. You would have been far better off to have explained how you approached the big picture, thinking of your employer at least as much as being able to show off your technical prowess. That you haven't done so would put serious doubts in my mind as a potential employer. Without serious training and agreements as to the parameters of your job, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with you in the booth. That might be a shame, since you showed the initiative to even approach the problem in the first place. Incidentally, the stack blower that John mentioned is a great idea. Several multi's in our area have done exactly this, as their way of dealing with the problem you have now. Once you get through this situation, get one of these things (probably from Grainger), then see if you can arrange your booth so the blower can be placed on any lamphouse that might need it.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 05-21-2007 12:55 PM                        Insurance: you don't have any if covers and switches are modified. I agree that unless you are the owner or his rep: the house stays down unless authorized in writing. Even then NO ONE except you should be allowed in the same room with the equipment. From a technical standpoint, the bulb is dumb and if its blower is blowing AND THE HOT AIR CAN ESCAPE, the bulb is happy. I would 1. reduce the current to a lower level even if the screen is darker.(4000 watt belb to 80 amps or so.) 2. Remove the exhaust hose from the top of the lamphouse, which at least allows the hottest air to escape. 3. leave the rest of the covers on. If you have an emergency blower, then use it. (Ours is made out of an old tube from shipping in a screen and a very large muffin fan.) Louis  |  IP: Logged Chris Dugan Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Goodyear, AZ Registered: Jul 2006 posted 05-21-2007 01:00 PM                        quote: Louis Bornwasser Remove the exhaust hose from the top of the lamphouse, which at least allows the hottest air to escape. 3. leave the rest of the covers on. If you have an emergency blower, then use it. (Ours is made out of an old tube from shipping in a screen and a very large muffin fan.) We do the exact same thing when the fan on the roof dies. It gets hot in booth, but I know for sure that if the bulb does decide to go, that glass isn't going to go every which direction and my operators are safe.  |  IP: Logged Chad M Calpito Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: San Diego, CA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 05-21-2007 01:07 PM                        While your intentions were good, it wasn't a good idea to run a projector with the lamphouse open. I have to agree with the posts in this topic. Plus, it is mainly a safety issue. In my booth, Safety is a huge issue and I would never allow something like this to happen.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 05-21-2007 01:36 PM                     Yes, get the equipment fix as soon as possible. Like one theatre I know of that had a old Christie CH-20 console that had all of the safeties defeated since you had to open the door to do the focus and azmuith alignments while the bulb was running ,, and the owners didn't pay any heed to safety or even cared how this procedure was handled...nor even worried on getting the adjustment points fixed so that the usage of the allen wrench was used... ...it was totally insane how this was all done.... I have X-90 consoles in my area and I've made a emergency stack fan from a muffin fan that is mounted in the back door, take the duct from the ceiling and attach this muffin fan with a long cord to have the unit run continuously if I lose a roof fan. Doing this, does keep the console on the cool side, but I do agree - does warm up that section of the booth a bit. What is the pits though is when that cathode fan in the console decides to cease functioning...no light then....why one has to take that unit off and do the oiling procedures required for those small Dayton motors...twice a year.. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Scott D. Neff Theatre Dork Posts: 919 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Oct 1999 posted 05-21-2007 03:14 PM                        Not that I ever enjoyed it, but we ran two old Xetron consoles without the back and non-op side covers for YEARS without any problems. It never looked pretty, but it kept the place running since the landlord refused to replace any of the roof exhausts.  |  IP: Logged Christopher Meredith Expert Film Handler Posts: 126 From: Jackson, MS, USA Registered: Apr 2006 posted 05-21-2007 03:15 PM                        I don't know how I gave the impression that I wasn't planning on getting this fixed. I thought I had indicated in the OP that the new fan would not arrive until tomorrow morning. We had an HVAC tech out here until almost midnight Saturday night working on the unit, his conclusion being that it was in need to replacement and that the motor is OEM and needs to be ordered from the mfg. It will be fixed at the earliest opportunity. Second, this was not a call I made on my own, though the person who has the authority to make this call had the same idea as me. Third, I agree that the lack fo sail switches is a bad thing. But when you inherit a setup that has changed hands and companies numerous times, it's difficult to determine which odd things were done intentioanlly and for a good reason and which ones were the result of negligence somewhere along the line. I admit to at least partially dropping the ball on this point. As far as the issue of proper airflow, this is the one that most interests me. It has been stated ibn this thread that the design and placement of the lamphouses and the exhaust hardware is done intentionally to create a specific airflow for the general cooling of the interior of the lamphouse. Is that affected by Monte's suggestion of rigging up an emergency fan that pulls air out the back of the X-90, rather than out the top as it is designed to do? In other words, if Monte's suggestion works, I don't understand why my temporary solution wouldn't. For what it's worth, I found out after the original post that the parts will not actually arrive until Wednesday morning. Given that fact, and given that it is not a non-peak business time, we've decided to run without that house at all. Again, I hope I enver gave the impression that this was intended as anything other than a short-term, temporary "band-aid" until the repair could be completed.  |  IP: Logged

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