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Author Topic: identify this connector Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-26-2007 05:19 PM                        See these pics: This connector is currently used to attach an Altec VOTT to a theatre's sound system, though the connector and wiring may actually date back to an earlier Western Electric system. I've never seen anything like this. It's a 4-pin connector (sorry I didn't get a shot of the male version) and looks fairly heavy-duty. In this installation, only two of the pins are actually used. Does anyone know what this thing is called and if these are still available? (Neutrik speakons just don't have quite the same charm.)  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 06-26-2007 07:46 PM                     That connector reminds me of the old style connectors used on old theatre stage lighting systems. The older connectors were 2 prong and the later ones were three prong style.  |  IP: Logged Robert Minichino Master Film Handler Posts: 350 From: Haskell, NJ, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 06-26-2007 10:10 PM                        I'm pretty sure that's exactly what that is and I can almost swear I've seen one before. Looks like a 20A type-18 stage pin connector, pins should be 1 9/32" on center horizontally: http://www.usitt.org/bookstore/downloads/U87%20S3-StgPinStandard20050610.pdf  |  IP: Logged Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 06-26-2007 10:32 PM                        that is an old style stage pin connector. We have them at the local middle school. Sometimes I do lighting there and the pin connectors look very much like that. The middle schools theater was built around 1935 and nothing has really changed much since then. At the Schwartz Center we have the much newer 3 pin.. Mike  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 06-27-2007 12:17 AM                    That sort of looks like one of the old connectors that Doc Brown was using when he was getting Marty back to the future.  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 06-27-2007 12:56 AM                     I was just thinking that exact thing Darryl. They didn't think we would notice. Just like they couldn't find a 46 ford convertible so they cut the top off a coupe.  |  IP: Logged Phillip Grace Expert Film Handler Posts: 164 From: ACMI. Melbourne. Australia. Registered: Mar 2004 posted 06-27-2007 05:23 AM                     I have seen these connectors on the stage speakers of a c.1937 Western Electric system. It was a multi-purpose stage and the screen and speakers were hung from tracks and stored against the upstage wall. The speaker connection was via a trailing lead, as was the power supply to the motorized top masking. The masking used a different connector of course. I would guess that two cores were for the voice coil and the other two for the field magnet.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-27-2007 08:02 AM                        What would be the purpose of a 4-pin lighting connector? I'm only familiar with the 3-pin variety. It is a weird connector, too, since there is nothing to prevent someone from inserting it the wrong way (pins are all evenly spaced and nothing is "keyed" to force correct orientation, unlike 3-pin stage pin connectors). In case it matters, the theatre in question was built in 1926 as a vaudeville house with silent Powers projectors. I'm not sure when they converted to sound, but they were running a Western Electric system through the late 1970s. I'm not sure when the Altec came in, but it is of the "Simplex/IPC" variety of Altec speakers (not an A4 or A7). It was definitely in place by the mid-1960s, so the connector probably predates that.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-27-2007 08:42 AM                     I would look at it as two parallel stage pin connectors, rather than a single 4-pin connector. Presumably it's desired if you have some combo device that needs more than a single 20A circuit (or whatever the stage-pin limit was back then). As for whether its intended for two independent circuits, or on the same phase, or on different phases so you can draw 208V [or 240V], I couldn't say. As for "nothing to prevent someone from inserting it the wrong way," well, it's just like an unpolarized 120VAC wall plug. From the perspective of a light bulb, there is no wrong way From the perspective of operator safety, well, it is a new century. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 06-27-2007 08:44 AM                        The Four pin ones we have (if I get a chance today I will slip by and take a pic) looks almost like the one you have, but they look to be shorter. However on ours we have a indentation on one side between two pins, the male connector has a dimple that fits in the indentation, Looks like your female has the dimple. the lights we have that these connect to are 220 volt and run 4 wires. I have no clue why because back then they only used 3 wires for 220V (two hot one Neutral that also served as a ground) today for code we use 4 wires in Delaware 2 hot, 1 neutral 1 ground, maybe the 4th pin was used as a ground for the light fixture back then? Come to think of it I think one cable served to lights in a couple of cases at the middle school; the cable splits off and serves two separate lights. Mike  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 06-27-2007 09:39 PM                        Indeed it looks like #18 on that USITT list, meant for 3-phase. Never saw one in use on any of the stages I worked here, and most of the stages here used pin connectors. For 3-phase we generally used twist-lock connectors, or if the loads were too large for a single connector, we went with separate cam-lock connectors for each cable. The only stage lamps I can think of that needed 3-phase power would have been some really large carbon arcs like the Genarco Metros or Strong Gladiators. All of the Strong Troupers and Super Troupers we used took single-phase feeds, either 20A, 30A or 60A capacity. Of course for TV and film production lighting, and theater projection lighting, 3-phase power for lamps is much more common. But these applications generally don't use stage pin connectors.  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-28-2007 07:18 AM                        Like others have said it looks a lot to me like a connector used in theatrical lighting. My High school had a great for its time (1976) when it was built full professional lighting system with like 100 connectors 2 buses and a hugs patch bay (I think there were 15 or 20 Dimmer circuits) and lighting boars connections backstage, on the catwalk, and in the booth. My buddy and I restored the theatre put the lighting board back in the booth which had been used as storage for 15 years. We rebuilt almost all of the solid state dimmer that had bad caps or resistors I think there were only 2 that we couldnt fix but they had spates so we got all 29 channels back, also you could patch 10 lights onto each channel with an old school straight male plug on the light circuit end and the femail on the patch bay well if you happened to be touching the connector at all with the board on youd get bit pretty good! All our lights were huge spots (I forget the term for the type they used a certain "lense") some floods and big 10 socket strps for the stage lighting. I still remember running the lights for Joseph and The Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat. The school had been hiring a company to come in and set up rented lights and a digital dimmer but we convinced them that we could do it now that we rebuilt the lighting system (after the freakout about who authorized us and insurance liability) they gave us the chance we saved the Drama dept a lot of money (That got re distributed to the sports dept.) and put on a kick ass show. Changing gels in between scenes re patching between scenes and the last night we had a lamp (bulb) explode in the middle of the show it was the main spoot for center foward stage! Well I remember hanging off the catwalk 4 stories up replacing the lamp and beeing more concerned about not getting my skin oil on the lamp than falling! lol I wish I was 15 again! The director told us after the show that our lighting and tech directing was the best shes seen in 20 years of running the Drama dept. Including hired otuside companies. "Josephs mother she was quite my favorite wife I never really loved another all my life and Joseph was my joy because he reminded me of her, Red and Yellow and Green and Purple and Peach and Aucker and blue and a whole lotta gels!  |  IP: Logged

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