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Author Topic: Masking motor / automation issue James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 08-06-2007 01:51 AM                     Strange scenes in the gold mine... We have Rentec automation with Rentec consoles, circa 1990 issue, and the house in question has top masking. The default for the masking to be in because we run Firstlook is flat ratio, or masking up. When we start the trailers (35mm), we lower the masking for the scope films. In this particular house, the movie was Bratz, which was fortunate as this meant fewer people noticed the problem... After the 5pm show dropped, I noticed the masking did not reset itself to flat. I attempt to manually do this using the automation controls on the console. (Whoever set these up in 1990 assumed Flat meant "close" (like side masking) and "open" means scope. I do not know if it was an installer preference or someone at Rentec, but this causes confusion to anyone we train upstairs.) The masking stayed in the down position all evening, cutting off the top of the Firstlook. Due to show schedules, I didn't have time to go behind the screen until after the last showing of Bratz dropped. I got in the auditorium as the credits to Bratz's last showing was running, and stationed myself close to the masking motor to see if the unit would even attempt to run when the movie dropped. (This is activated by the dcn's controls, somehow. This doesn't sctivate by the close of the projector dowser, but the failsafe's dropping.) The motor did not buzz or do anything. Not a peep. I am thinking it's not getting any power. I dust off the controls on the motor itself and, interestingly, was able to raise, lower, raise, lower and raise the masking. Now I am thinking it's the automation, or at least the function that controls the masking. I go back upstairs, and...now the open/close masking switch on the console's automation panel IS WORKING. Is this a Rentec thing or did the masking motor decide it wanted the night off?  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-06-2007 02:45 AM                     being a two direction motor, I wonder if the start contacts in the motor are beginning to "want more days off" as time goes on.. What you did was "freed things up" when you went back screen.. Our company used to have maskings that would default back to flat (and we have both -sides and top-), but decided to discontinue this to reduce wear and tear on the masking motors due to this possible issue that you're experiencing.  |  IP: Logged Mike Spaeth Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1129 From: Marietta, GA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 08-06-2007 09:01 AM                        Check the motor. Often, the problem is as simple as a blown fuse. Depends what type of masking motor you have.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 08-06-2007 09:46 AM                    CFS console I am assuming. Could be an issue in the function board or mother board on the console causing one of the relays to stick. Could be an issue with the DCN unit on the wall or the DCU board inside the console that the cable is plugged into. If it is the CFS (Rentec) console you can pull the switch out and rotate it around so that the switch direction is correct eliminating the confusion.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 08-06-2007 09:48 AM                     Often, I've seen where the cleaners have blown all kinds of junk into the motor and it's gearing. Some motors have the limit switches on the outside, driven by a small chain, and this area gets all clogged up. The workers are supposed to replace the covers to protect it, but forget.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 08-06-2007 12:03 PM                     Our fun is compounded by the fact we have 17 movies and only 2 of them are flat (El Cantante and Chuck & Larry). NCM wants the maskings in the flat ratio to properly run their Firstlook presentations, which is understandable. If the maskings get stuck, I'd rather it be in the flat position so nothing is cropped off. (In the drop-masking houses, of course. I have 3 houses with side-to side.) Thanks for the tip on the open/close manual masking switch, Darryl. The original 12 screens were built in 1990, with the additional 4 added in in 1994. This is the first time I started noticing trouble with the masking motors so these units are built well. Thanks for your input. James.  |  IP: Logged Jesse Skeen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1517 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Aug 2000 posted 08-06-2007 12:56 PM                     It seems like more theaters are doing this now, which is an abomination of showmanship. Especially with common-width screens, the masking should NEVER move when there are people in the audience to see it, only exception being if you're showing a double-feature with one movie in each format or if a certain trailer just HAS to be shown that doesn't match the movie. It just looks awful to go into a theater, get used to the screen in the ratio set for the preshow, then have the screen get SMALLER when the feature starts. If I wanted to watch a letterboxed movie, I can do that at home! I tend to sit a row or two closer to the screen if it's common-width and the movie is scope, but I can't do that if the masking's always set to flat when I go in and I don't know what format the movie's going to be. Making it even more awkward is if the first scope trailers that hit the screen are 'windowboxed' with black on the sides, or if the movie is one that starts out that way (Simpsons, Brother Bear, Galaxy Quest). If the movie is scope, keep the masking down and re-size the preshow so it fits properly on the screen. Having the masking change for it tells your customers that the pre-show is more important than the actual movie. (I actually left my last full-time theater job when they forced me to do this, and I will not patronize any theater that does this.) And if the pre-show IS that important, why the hell did you put in common-width screens in the first place??? I've seen brand-new theaters built within the past couple years with common-width screens but they want the masking adjusted for the pre-show- if you have a screen with side masking then you can keep it the same size no matter where the masking is, and of course that's also the preferable way to put in a screen anyways! This practice is just one more reason to give up on the theater 'experience' and wait for the DVD.  |  IP: Logged Jarryd Beard Expert Film Handler Posts: 229 From: Hellertown, PA Registered: Jul 2004 posted 08-06-2007 12:59 PM                     If the problem continues, couldn't you simply resize and reposition the Firstlook image so it fits the scope screen with black bars on either side? That's what we do with our preshow projectors whenever we switch between scope and flat movies in our auditoria. All of our screens have manual masking... no motors. Besides, customers may feel "ripped off" when their screen actually shrinks in size before the movie starts. The problem of common width screens I suppose.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-06-2007 01:32 PM                     quote: Jarryd Beard If the problem continues, couldn't you simply resize and reposition the Firstlook image so it fits the scope screen with black bars on either side? What I do with my pre-show digital presentations: Resize for scope masking. The owners of the preshow doesn't like this but we tell them of the hassle of resizing masking for the larger preshow and since they want our business, they've accepted this procedure.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 08-06-2007 02:14 PM                     The company I work for is part owner of NCM, and NCM sends their techs out to size the DCN's pictures on screen. We are not authorized to jack with the settings. In fact,aside from changing bulbs and occasional unplugging and replugging the power cord to the DCN when it decides to project an all white or flashing blue screen instead of what it's supposed to be running, and an occasional unplugging and replugging of the power cord to the computer the dcn is hooked up to for rebooting,we have NO maintenance chores on the dcn. A tech is sent out to do this. I had been cleaning the ports and lenses to these things myself when I was told I didn't need to be doing that. (I still do when I feel I need to anyway.) When I was running the mechanical slide projectors, I had the pictures sized to run on the "masking down" setting in those houses, as then the masking never moved until we changed features in that house from flat to scope and vice-versa. If I could change the picture sizing to match the smallest area, I would. And my booth staff would love it.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-06-2007 08:26 PM                     Disconnect the control lines at the masking motor and then use the buttons on the masking motor or a short wire jumper to try to pulse it and see if it works  |  IP: Logged Jesse Skeen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1517 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Aug 2000 posted 08-06-2007 10:45 PM                     Wouldn't it be nice if you could just forget about the pesky movies altogether and just show NCM content?  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 08-07-2007 12:12 AM                     No, Jesse, it would not be nice to do that. There have been a few Thursdays I have thought that, but generally...no. (example: I am supposed to help get 7 prints built up and the film truck STILL isn't here???!! It's 2 in the afternoon? Did he get swept away in a flood or something?) Thanks, Gordon, for the input. I'll try that next time.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Pitt Master Film Handler Posts: 266 From: Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Registered: May 2007 posted 08-07-2007 03:49 PM                     In the UK, nearly all pre-show adverts and trailers are supplied in the flat format, whereas movies themselves can be supplied in flat or scope format. If you need to have a pre-show advert and trailer session, the projector/masking needs to be set to flat and then change over to scope (if necessary) for the feature. The way I see it, there are only two ways to avoid the masking change. Either have a short intermission between the final trailer and the start of the movie (changing masking while audience won't notice). Or, set the screen up for scope and shrink flat features to the vertical confines of the scope screen. When I visited Cineworld Sheffield, they did the latter - the screen was sized for scope all the time, with no masking. Flat features just filled the middle of this area, leaving dark bands on the left and right. Scope features filled the screen. Vue Leeds Light uses top masking (single blind) in all their screens. It's not very nice to have the entire screen appear to move down a bit when the masking changes! If I'm going to see a movie there, I check on Film-Tech forums to see whether it's flat or scope... if scope, I sit a little further down so I'm more in the vertical centre for scope pictures. In Vue Sheffield, some screens use side masking and others use top and bottom masking (two blinds; centre of picture remains the same). It's always obvious when the screen is about to change size. For a couple of seconds, a very scratchy white or green piece of leader is actually projected. This is the 'spacer' film to cover the time needed for the turret to rotate. However, they place the cue mark at the beginning of the spacer film, and it doesn't actually trigger the changeover until it's been projected briefly! Oddly, I've never seen this effect in any other cinema I've visited, and the changeover has been much quicker (faster turret?)  |  IP: Logged Chris Slycord Film God Posts: 2986 From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea Registered: Mar 2007 posted 08-07-2007 04:24 PM                     quote: It's always obvious when the screen is about to change size. For a couple of seconds, a very scratchy white or green piece of leader is actually projected. This is the 'spacer' film to cover the time needed for the turret to rotate. However, they place the cue mark at the beginning of the spacer film, and it doesn't actually trigger the changeover until it's been projected briefly! Clearly they've never heard of black film.  |  IP: Logged

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