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Author Topic: simple stupid mag sound question Peter Conheim Film Handler Posts: 16 From: El Cerrito, CA Registered: Feb 2007 posted 10-12-2007 02:25 PM                     I've just installed a Philips FP-20 projector with mag sound pickup, along with a Quad Eight pre-amp. My question: what is the channel configuration for the four tracks? In other words, is it: 1-L, 2-R, 3-Center, 4-effects, or... ?? Thanks, PC  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-12-2007 09:52 PM                     Starting from the outboard (closest to the operator when threaded) it is Left (1), Center (2), Surround (4), Right (3). That is, the surround channel is between the picture and the perforation on the inboard side. I believe if you download the Dolby MPU-1 manual (even if you aren't using it) it gives a picture of the track configuration. Steve  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 10-12-2007 10:03 PM                       I disagree and can't believe I've forgotten this. It is left, center, surround, right from inside out. 1,2,4,3. Hmm. Maybe Steve is right. This is his favorite format of all time.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 10-13-2007 02:40 AM                     Surround is 3 and right is 4; you can tell because the surround stripe is narrower. Some people number them from the opposite edge though, I've got a feeling the Russians did. Steve, I've got a feeling that you've listed the tracks in the order that they come on the film, rather than the L,C,R,S order that we normally think of them, but still swapped the numbers of 3 and 4, as if you'd listed them the other way, it you see what I mean. Yes, the MPU-1 manual does show the track configurations for both 35mm and 70mm (Todd-AO format with five screen channels) formats.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-13-2007 04:37 AM                     Yea, I've always thought, facing the base side of the film with the magnetic striping and soundtrack to the left and with the complete physical layout as such: Left,("FOX" sprockethole) Center,(optical track), Surround,("FOX" sprokethole) and Right. I loved running mag - just one clean, strong sound compared to basic optical, which was long before anyone heard of Dolby...  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 10-13-2007 08:39 AM                        Ah, yess! "Poor-man's 70mm" strikes again!! Also my favorite format. Cheaper than 70, but with 80% of the benefits. When I did a lot of premieres (mono) I would order a fox-hole print and have it sounded mono on all four tracks. In early platter booths, this avoided picture & track issues, not excluding the booth op's heart attack hen he found out about picture & track. Louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-13-2007 09:47 AM                     No, my post was correct. Surround is always channel 4 in a 4-track system but the order on the film is 1, 2, 4, 3 due to surround getting the thinner track. A common mistake is that the thin track is not on the optical soundtrack side. It is Center, a full-width track, that covers one of the optical tracks in a mag-optical print. Whereas CinemaScope with 4-track magnetic premiered before the modern 70mm format (ToddAO) it wasn't a poor-man's 70mm. 70mm was a rich-man's 4-track  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-13-2007 10:28 AM                     Steve is correct on the 4 track layout. 4 track saw much inginuity put behind it in its early years including the use of Perspecta on the surround channel in at least one feature. Lets just say thats where the EX idea came from.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-13-2007 01:35 PM                     Remember when FOX released "Damnation Alley" back in 1976 in an unusual mag format which introduced L/R surrounds on a 35mm mag print? It had a name to it, but can't remember what it was..for it was such an oddity of a release. They took out the conventional front L/R tracks and put them in as L/R surround information and the actual surround track became center surround....Thus, a print with discrete channel information. The house had one speaker per each channel. This was the only film release that I know of that did this mag arrangement.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 10-13-2007 03:43 PM                       I am humbled to admit Steve is right and I am wrong. That was my initial recollection and then I checked with someone we all know who talked me into his version. There's always a first time.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 10-13-2007 04:58 PM                     Sorry Steve; I mis-understood what you were saying. quote: Mark Gulbrandsen 4 track saw much inginuity put behind it in its early years including the use of Perspecta on the surround channel in at least one feature. Mark, I assume you are talking about 'Around the World in 80 Days'; That's the only film that I've ever heard of doing this. If you know of any others I'd be very interested to hear about it. The use of Perspecta on the surround of the 4-track prints is fairly well known, and I've seen evidence which while not absolutely conclusive, strongly suggests that it was also used with the infamous 34mm print of this title which ran in London. However, there seems to be general agreement that this was not used on the 6-track Todd-AO version. Do you have any idea why this was? A couple of years ago there were rumors that a 4-track print with Perspecta surrounds existed, and that a screening of it was a possibility, but I've heard nothing since.  |  IP: Logged Bernard Tonks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-13-2007 05:58 PM                     CINESTAGE 34mm. "Around the World in 80 Days" originally opened in London, England in 1957. Cinestage. Todd-AO.  |  IP: Logged Mark Lensenmayer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1605 From: Upper Arlington, OH Registered: Sep 1999 posted 10-13-2007 06:22 PM                     Damnation Alley was in Sound 360. I saw this process in two different theatres, and it sounded very nice. They used rather large surround speakers, at least much larger than the very small ones they used in those days.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-13-2007 07:57 PM                     Also Tommy used three of the mag channels with DBX and a QS matrix to have left and right surround channels  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 10-13-2007 08:51 PM                       The speakers I saw used were Altec 604 Coaxial speakers. The idea was to have a very directional surround unlike the Dolby surround idea. This was the only show in this "format" to my knowledge.  |  IP: Logged

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