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Author Topic: Advice Needed For Historic Theatre Adam Holland Film Handler Posts: 66 From: Oak Grove, LA Registered: Nov 2007 posted 12-16-2007 06:09 PM                     I am the Chairman of the Fiske Theatre Committee in Oak Grove, La. and we are in the process of returning the Fiske Cinema to a Movie House. I found a complete set up of equipment in Andrews Texas that I can buy for about half of what the consultant priced for me. It is Simplex XL Projectors and the processors etc that come with it. I am wondering if this would be a good route to go or would it be best to buy rebuilt equipment that would have a warrantee with it. The theatre was state of the art when it opened in 1950 with Motiograph projectors and sound equipment, cry room, air conditioning, and the works. I have sold the motiograph sound equipment and still have my old motiograph projectors still set up that I have been told aren't worth repairing. For the right price they may be for sell. I also have a lenses that go with them both flat and scope they are for sale as well. According to a note posted in the both by Mr. Donald B. Fiske these lenses were worth 3,000 a pair when they were bought. Would love any advice some of you may have and if you are intrested in any of this equipment feel free to send me an email. [ 12-21-2007, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Adam Holland ]  |  IP: Logged Adam Martin I'm not even gonna point out the irony. Posts: 3686 From: Dallas, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 12-16-2007 06:25 PM                     This did not belong in the Equipment Sales forum. Moved.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-16-2007 06:44 PM                     First threaten to the city that you're going to tear it down and that you're going to build condos on the site.... you'll get all sorts of free publicity and no one's going to want the condos! But really you're going to renovate the theater... just don't tell them that and then a group will form to save your local theater. These folks will become invalualable in raising money and assisting you with the renovation. There ya go! P.S. Study the booth equipment because Christie never made an X-L projector... Tim will have a heart attack! Its probably a Christie Lamphouse or console with an X-L projector hanging on the front. Either Strong or Simplex built the actual projector. Older lamphouses no matter who built them are very inefficient by todays standards.... meaning low light output. Christie has a kit to upgrade their consoles to todays light output standards. Big Sky has one for the Xetron Lamphouses and so on... Know what you're buying... be careful what you buy even if you do know. Mark  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-18-2007 12:35 AM                       quote: Adam Holland According to a note posted in the both by Mr. Donald B. Fiske these lenses were worth 3,000 a pair when they were bought. Old lenses aren't worth anything. Lenses depreciate rapidly; technological advances make them old news fast. Those lenses were outdated by 1958. If someone offers you something for them - anything - take it. Same with the Motiographs, $75-100 tops... if they're AA's. But they're essentially worthless. One thing not to get painted into a corner on with these community project jobs... everyone thinks the existing equipment is worth a fortune - because it's old, if anything (fwiw, projection equipment has to be nearly 100 years old to be considered antique) - and they hold out for a buyer, thinking that will fund the new equipment. Meantime, it just sits there. There are still too many Motiogriefs (sic) and Snaplite lenses lying in junk piles for them to be unique. Just look on Ebay at some of the ridiculous prices people try to get for this stuff! There are people, however, who do collect tube-type amplifiers, which you have discovered, but no such sub-culture exists for the other items. quote: Christie never made an X-L projector... Tim will have a heart attack! That's funny. I would be very leery if you're looking at a Christie console. I wouldn't consider anything that isn't a model SLC from Christie. Even the Phoenix kit conversions Mark mentioned still have the rest of the console (transformers, tap switches) remaining as original equipment. The XL projector is okay if it's black; if it's blue, not so much. The soundhead section of the combine should be taken into consideration, too, but you did not mention that? The rest of Mark's idea about creating a panic sounds very good!  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-18-2007 08:02 AM                     Nothing wrong with the the stuff on an old CH series console... its more or less identicl to whats in the SLC. The inclusion of a Phoenix kit will net you the same long lamp life you'd get in an SLC, and at a fraction of the price. Mark  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 12-18-2007 09:37 AM                     Maintain the vintage appearance of the building and keep the technical side as contemporary as the budget allows. Contrary to what your committee may believe the movie customers are not coming just because of the building. If the movie is crap they will not come. Like it or not you're competing with the multis if you are doing first run and against video sales and rentals if you are sub run, classics, or artsy. Ditch all the ancient carbon arc lamps, all the tube amps, the '50s vintage speakers. We found a collector who paid us for all that stuff and took it down and hauled it away, a modest amount but considering he did all the lifting and moving an excellent deal for both. The only thing we stil have is a Brenkert C-14 follow spot that the board wants to put on display. You'llneed a digital projector too. [ 12-19-2007, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Bill Enos ]  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-18-2007 10:13 AM                        Everything Bill says is true. My 'modernization' rule here (for the lobby and outside, at least) has been: If the customers can see it, keep it old-fashioned; behind the scenes, get it as high-tech as possible. The exception is the auditorium where we ditched the old seats because they were uncomfortable, too close together and completely worn out. We rearanged the seating into continental style to improve the sound quality for the listeners, and we "soundfolded" the walls because the room was too echoey. Part of my refurbishing here has been to remove some of the "modernization" that we wrong-headedly did in the early 80s. We're going to take down the phony brick paneling and return the lobby to the original drywall look. It's the first project I've done about in 2 years that Mark G.'s company won't get any money out of! (Unless they suddenly jump into the drywall business, that is.)  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 12-18-2007 12:14 PM                       quote: Mark Gulbrandsen Nothing wrong with the the stuff on an old CH series console... its more or less identicl to whats in the SLC. Except that their 30+ years old, worn, and drying out.  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 12-18-2007 05:18 PM                     I believe the theatre in Andrews had Simplex heads. It was a twin mini-cinema.  |  IP: Logged Tony L. Hernandez Expert Film Handler Posts: 158 From: Windsor, CO, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 12-19-2007 02:16 AM                     After reading the original poster's message, I'd like to write a few things for him to think about. I'd like to sincerely applaud you for attempting to return films to your theater. First of all, as a couple other folks have said, I don't believe there was ever a Christie XL. There is a Simplex XL but I can't tell you what I personally think of those machines as I have never worked with one. It caught my eye that you mentioned you had Motiographs. We have a Motiograph AAA with CFS platters at one of my theaters that has given us 60 seasons of trouble free, quality service spending the first 40 years of its life on carbon arc and changeover and the last 20 years on xenon and platters. I've worked with many different types of 35mm projectors in my life and this is my all time favorite. Easy to clean and thread, almost impossible to thread out of frame, VERY reliable and with a rock-steady image. This were also a machine that my very dear, late friend (who was in this business 60 years) loved and had in all of her theaters and drive ins. That said, parts are almost impossible to find as Motiograph has been out of business for at least 40 years. We are OK at the theater I mentioned because of the fact that we have at least 3 picture and sound heads in storage, although we have only had to replace a part once, in my time there. That's another issue I should elaborate on..that part was a sound roller and our technician had quite a bit of trouble physically replacing that part since the unit was so old and everything had sort of settled into place. So to summarize, you have a couple EXTREMELY nice units already but if you choose to restore them, keep in mind what I said about parts. They will need to be upgraded to xenon lamps, the soundhead will have to be upgraded from the old exciter lamp to an LED reader and these units will also need some cleaning and mechanical restoration, especially if they have sat idle for over ten years. As others have said, it is hard to get a good price for old projection equipment. If you could find them a good home where they would be treated as museum pieces (they are very beautiful machines) or to a theater who needs them for parts and MAYBE get a small donation to your theater in the process, I'd be more than happy if I were you. And old lenses are good for nothing more than a boat anchor. If you do decide to scrap the Motiographs and replace them, I would suggest you allow some of the folks on this forum advise you on what to purchase. There are many dealers who would be more than happy to sell you a $20k booth full of unreliable, worthless Also, unless you are going to be running a feature at least 5 times, I would have to recommend you go with changeover rather than platters. You really don't want to spent 1 1/2 hours building up a print, showing it twice, then spending another 45 minutes breaking it down. Besides, many archives (for classic films) and independent film makers who only have a handful of prints will not allow their prints to go to a platter house as you must cut off heads and tails to build up and show. If you are showing a film more than 5 or so times, however AND have a limited staff, I would investigate platters. Platters also have many more problems (example, brainwraps, jams and horizontal scraches) than reel to reel changeover. I have platter at only one of my theaters and that is OK with me only due to the fact that it is only myself and the owner running the theater most of the time and we are a first run house showing any one film, every night, for 2+ weeks. So obviously I cannot be up there for the whole show running the booth being one of two staff. The rest of my theaters are changeover, mostly because we only show a film twice or four times and there is a projectionist (myself) in the booth at all times. I agree with the others that up-to-date sound and lamphouses are a must but disagree with the statement that the projectors must be state of the art. I've honestly seen a pair of 70 year old Super Simiplexes put out a nicer image than the new Christies. And of the projectors I've dealt with ranging in age from a 1937 install to a 2006 install, I've found older units to be more user-friendly. Another reason 35mm is better than digital cinema...a 35mm unit can be used for 60+ years with only minor upgrades to keep with the times...10 years with digital cinema will be pushing it before you have an obsolete boat anchor you have to tear out and replace. You may (once you get everything else done) eventually want to get a digital projector for DVDs and special usues and a couple 16mm units to make your theater a more versatile venue. Sorry to ramble...if you have any more questions just post or message me. There are lots of very well seasoned and bright folks on here to help and I'll keep an eye on this thread too.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-19-2007 07:38 AM                     quote: Tony L. Hernandez Platters also have many more problems (example, brainwraps, jams and horizontal scraches) than reel to reel changeover. ...and...cue Brad.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 12-19-2007 07:41 AM                     While it is OK to spend time on your own equipment, you can't expect an outside service tech to spend a long time finding old / discontinued parts without charging. Most theater owners would probably get upset at receiving an invoice that said, in effect; $50 for a barrel shutter gear, $240 for finding it, $60 for getting the pre-stripped screws out so it can be replaced, $60 for replacement. Exactly when to replace something is always a matter of opinion, but if you can't do the work yourself it might be the better option. I agree with Tim on everything. Also, I have been involved with several 'historic' theater projects where the people running the project want the parts and labor donated for free or cheap, usually bringing it up after payment is due. I am NOT saying the original person who posted this topic would/will/might do this; don't even know him. I like Mark's idea about threatening to put up condos, too! I saw it done one, only it was a warehouse ... it worked!  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 12-19-2007 07:49 AM                     That's very good advice re. Changeovers and it gives real programming flexibility, particularly with a single screen. This is a long shot, and it depends on your screen size, but you could also think about dual-gauge 35/70mm with additional provision down the line for 2K DLP as well to do 3-D and alternative programming. 70mm would give you commercial leverage in terms of a "unique selling point" that multis would find hard to emulate. There is a fine libary now of classic product, and it has the "wow" factor that would draw people in. It could be quite realistic to buy a pair of say, second-hand Philips DP70s or Century JJ's for possibly not much more than the 35mm package referred to above. There are more overheads of course, but taking a longer view it could work very well. I guess your auditorium and available screen size are the governing factor. You need 60ft minimum width to do 70mm justice. Good luck!  |  IP: Logged Paul Gordon Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 580 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2005 posted 12-19-2007 07:59 AM                        Go with something common and reliable... Century SA's come to mind... Go with a changeover setup but also have a tower system for long play runs. Its easier on the film then a platter and takes up less room. Then you can start the trailers on projector 1 and changeover to the feature. A high end video projector would be a good investment for local video's and rentals  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-19-2007 08:15 AM                     quote: Tim Reed Except that their 30+ years old, worn, and drying out. Tim, Now you're beginning to show ignorance and I know you're smarter than tha. There are huundreds of CH consoles as well as lamphouse/rectifier combos just in the service area that I cover. All of them still function 100% and none of them have any dried out wiring. In fact the wiring has always been one of the best parts of the Christie gear... even out here where humidity is really low you won't find any with dried up stuff except possibly the nylon adjustment gears... but there are metal replacements for those if you look hard enough in the right place... again if the part doesn't exist improvise or have it made! Most of the CH's out here have Phoenix kits in them but a few still chug along with the old reflector. Mike Blaksley runs an old CH with a Phoenix kit and I don't think he has anything to complain about it. His on screen image is outstanding and lamp life can approach 20K hours if you want to run them that long... and some do. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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