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Author Topic: Film Guard "Splotches" & other questions James Paterson Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Boronia Victoria Australia Registered: Feb 2008 posted 02-17-2008 07:56 AM                    Hi from Australia, I managed to purchase a bottle of Film Guard here (at just on $100 per bottle) with the aim of using for cleaning up old 16mm kinescope prints. Before a pass in a bosh fernseh flying spot telecine. Now i havent the budget for a proper film cleaning machine, so i applied very sparingly (at $100 a bottle you have to!) to both sides of the film using a microfibre cloth as it was wound at around projection speed through a winder. When wound onto the reel, there was a very slight oozing of the filmguard when you pressed the film together. Upon a test projection it appeared to clean up minor scratches etc and other blemishes ok but slight streaks appeared on the first projection which then dissapeared. However i put the film away for a few weeks and then brought it out again, and the film has begun to dry slightly, but it has left oily "splotches" on the film and you can see these particularly when physically holding the film and reflecting the light off it. When projected it appears sometimes as a white flash in part of the frame ... I just wondered if it should go splotchy like that and if the film should stay oily/greasy even after many weeks As i mainly deal with archival film material and one of a kinds for transfer to television, filmguard was the only solution i could find in australia, and even then it was not easy and not to mention expensive (why so expensive here?) I know in times gone by trichlor was the cleaner of choice, and piclear was the master of scratch removal for transfers - but all these have long since gone due to health concerns. I have tried to get my hands on 99.7% pure isopropol alcohol, but even this is not allowed to be sold from chemists and heavy restrictions apply elsewhere. (only 77% alcohol is available which leaves water on the film) Of course with film guard being a slow to evaporate liquid i am a little worried about health concerns when handling the film after treatment (the greasy stuff that wipes off and is hard to wash off your hands) Also the fumes that are noticable after application, even in a well ventilated room. I know you cant tell me exactly whats in it, but an idea of what class of chemicals i am dealing with would be helpful. anyhow, i am keen to learn more about using filmguard to its best advantage, and methods of restoring early film material ready for telecine transfer James  |  IP: Logged Don Furr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 509 From: Sun City, Ca USA Registered: Nov 2002 posted 02-17-2008 08:35 AM                     James I think bottom line is you are using way too much Film Guard. It's a little difficult to apply without a proper applicator but can be done. I simply spray a very small amount of the cloth and wind the film through the cloth re-applying Film Guard when the cloth becomes dirty. I never use the same cloth position twice once it becomes dirty. A little Film Guard goes a long way. If the product is dripping out of the film roll it's TOO WET!!  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-17-2008 12:31 PM                     I just did some 16mm a short time ago. I put a rubber glove on my left hand then put a clean cloth film glove on over top of that. I sprayed two squirts of FG right onto the glove, just enough to wet the first and second fingers of my left hand. I held my left hand palm up and weaved the film back and forth between my fingers as I slowly wound it from the left to the right. The two wet fingers contacted the film first then two dry fingers. The film would get wet with FG then the liquid would be evened out and the rest of the dirt would come off on the dry fingers. You can gently wiggle your fingers and change the position of your hand to vary the path the film takes to ensure that the film is always going over a clean part of the glove. After making one pass, take the glove off and turn it inside out then repeat the process. This time you only need to put a very small amount of FG on the glove if you have to put ANY at all. I did this about a month ago and the film looks almost perfect, now!  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-17-2008 12:52 PM                     Yup, way too much. That quart bottle will outclean far more film than a gallon of any other type of film cleaner. Best to run the film through a dry cloth with light pressure to help wipe some of that overapplication off.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 02-17-2008 07:41 PM                     AUD$100?! You should be able to get a single bottle for USD$33 (AUD$36), even accounting for taxes and international shipping and soforth, that's out of this world. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-17-2008 10:09 PM                     $100 is crazy. Did you bring it in yourself? Email me and I'll get you a (much) better price locally. Edit: Spoke to James and he bought it from Sydney which had about $20 postage on it. The bottles sell for around $80. Don't forget the sale price must include freight from US which is considerable. [ 02-20-2008, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: John Wilson ]  |  IP: Logged John Koutsoumis Master Film Handler Posts: 261 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Registered: Aug 2003 posted 02-17-2008 11:10 PM                     I recently bought a bottle for $85 from our supplier here in Melbourne  |  IP: Logged James Paterson Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Boronia Victoria Australia Registered: Feb 2008 posted 02-17-2008 11:27 PM                    I bought it from the Sydney supplier, cost about $85 and with shipping ended up around $100 I cant work out either why its so expensive here when it sells for much much less overseas and on US ebay it is going for around $25 a bottle. RE: filmguard use, i will try using much less and test the results, i didnt think i was using a lot - it certainly wasnt dripping from the reel, but there was enough applied to get a glisten come out of the roll if you pressed it together which showed you the section you had filmguarded. If using it very little will it still give the scratch concealment qualities? or for that do you really have to apply it thickly and then wipe it off later?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-17-2008 11:37 PM                     quote: James Paterson there was enough applied to get a glisten come out of the roll if you pressed it together That is WAY too much. You shouldn't over-apply and then try to wipe off the excess. Just use a much, much smaller amount in the first place. Yes it will offer scratch-concealment properties when used in this manner.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 02-18-2008 01:16 AM                     quote: James Paterson bought it from the Sydney supplier, cost about $85 and with shipping ended up around $100 Boy, major markup...like almost a 200% markup to say the least...is that supplier running that place like a cinema snakbar?  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 02-18-2008 02:48 AM                     quote: Monte L Fullmer Boy, major markup...like almost a 200% markup to say the least...is that supplier running that place like a cinema snakbar? For that to happen the Film Guard would also have to be out of code, or at very least, stale.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-18-2008 09:33 AM                        Maybe at YOUR snackbar.  |  IP: Logged Peter David Bruce Expert Film Handler Posts: 187 From: East Anglia -England Registered: Aug 2007 posted 02-18-2008 10:31 AM                    We had this damage happen BIG TIME from excessive use of the stuff. People guess (we never did find out exactly) that the person applicated the filmguard by taking the top off and pouring the stuff over the print... or at least just putting far too much on it without wiping it off. The print looks like theres watermarks ALL over it. wishy washy.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 02-18-2008 01:52 PM                     This just goes to show how stupid people are. Seriously, what kind of person is going to grab a bottle and say "I'll just pour this onto the print and it will be perfect"? These kind of people should have never been admitted into the booth in the first place, because it's the same kind of person who will try to clean a projector with a shop rag and the motor running. Just put some dry media on the cleaner and keep passing the film through. There is no permanent damage to the print, but you can speed things up by wiping off the excess like that.  |  IP: Logged

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