Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Component Engineering's nonexistent customer svc. policy (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Component Engineering's nonexistent customer svc. policy
Paul H. Rayton
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Los Angeles, CA , USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 06-08-2008 07:04 PM      Profile for Paul H. Rayton     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We've got a Component Engineering "MS-100" booth monitor we use. It's basically a 20 watt audio amplifier and a few switches to select what channel you're listening to.

It quit working a couple of weeks ago. In fact, it blew the fuse located on the back of the box. We arranged a temporary setup to check sound, and began to try to figure out how to get it fixed.

We checked here (Film-Tech) for information. Hooray, it's listed in the Manuals section! We're in luck.... oops, maybe not, just a block diagram, no real tech info. Hmmmmm.

We then contacted Component Engineering via e-mail, to ask about a schematic. They replied and said they "do not release the schematic". They then inquired of the serial number of the device, suggesting that they might be able to service it.

We duly sent them the serial number. The reply to that was, effectively, "you unit is too old, you should throw it out and buy a new one". (We have the e-mails to confirm all this, I'm just summarizing it here)

A 20 watt audio amp. isn't exactly a military secret (or is it?), so their unwillingness to share a schematic is a fine example of customer service that's not there.

Part two of the story: we have someone who works with us who's quite skilled in electrical issues (and occasionally volunteers his time and services to help us out). He took the monitor home and, in a couple of days, replaced the following: (1) 4700mfd capacitor ($2.70), (1) 100mfd capacitor ($.70), (1) bridge rectifier ($.48). Sales tax on the above came to .32, and the shipping (from Jameco) was $6.59. TOTAL COST OF REPAIRS: $10.79.

A new monitor from Component Engineering lists for $758.00. I'm not sure my math is quite as good as it once was, but I think the $10.79 is a good saving over any possible sales discount we'd get off of $758. Or is there a dealer out there who gives away products?

We're not rolling in money, so it would have been a significant "hit" to pay for a new one (especially since they didn't want to bother even trying to fix ours -- remember, it was "too old"!).

I just relate this tale to inform you out there that their customer service seems to exist in name only. Has anyone else had similar issues? A competent service person should be able to repair your monitor. For example, some of the capacitors were even available at Radio Shack, except those had the wrong kind of leads to fit in the tight area inside the monitor.

I was shocked at this whole saga, because somehow I thought CE stood behind their products. Apparently, I was a bit mistaken.

 |  IP: Logged

Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 06-08-2008 08:42 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One possible excuse is that, due to changes in parts, they feel that a repair cannot be guaranteed to happen (Crown and dts, for example will not even consider their earlier models.)

The items we make will always be repaired; at least we will try. I can see some possibilities where we will fail, but at least we will try.

Even Dolby cannot get parts for some older stuff, but they at least will attempt most repairs. Louis

 |  IP: Logged

Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 06-08-2008 08:52 PM      Profile for Jeremy Weigel   Email Jeremy Weigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've not had any problems with their customer service in the past, but maybe the person misunderstood and thought you were wanting to do warranty repair service? That might be why he/she said it was too old. This is why I like to call and speak with a live person instead communicating via email on issues like this.

As for not publishing the schematics, maybe they have some proprietary patented way they build their monitors and don't want it readily available to the public? A lot of companies do this sort of thing.

Anyway, at least you were able to find someone to fix it a lower cost than new/used and provided the company name for the rest of us who might run into this same problem. The last ms-100 I purchased new ran around 350 from the dealer.

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-08-2008 09:14 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul,
There is no excuse for not repairing it! Just put it in a box and send it to us. I fix those all the time.

C.E. made a lot of mistakes in that box including the crapo I.C. pin socket for the power amp. These boxes are an easy fix and the STK power amp IC that usually fails in them is still very available if one knows where to look.
Mark @ CLACO

 |  IP: Logged

David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 06-08-2008 09:20 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just as a general observation, I've found email to be a really poor way of communicating these kinds of issues with vendors. Pick up the phone and talk to a live person if you can. You might have much better luck.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-08-2008 09:53 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Historically, CE has never released schematics. It is one of the reasons that I no longer would even consider an FM-35 cue detector. We had the initial problem with them and upon asking for a schematic (so I could beef up its detector circuit), I was instead told to measure stuff. I've proceeded to measure them right into the trash, whenever possible.

CE did eventually come out with a kit to make them much more reliable but it left a very bad taste in my mouth on that product. I still won't use them.

Oddly enough, I have found that CE has been more forth coming with documentation after the current owners took over.

Note, most companies no longer release schematics of their products anymore. Ever noticed that Since the CP55, Dolby does not include the schematics anymore?

I do find it odd that someone would leave you with the impression that they would not fix an existing MS-100...there really is nothing to it. CE also designed it to be servicable by leaving the wires connected to the terminal blocks in the rear...just remove the screws that hold that plate on, pull off the MTA connectors and remove the monitor...the rest of the rack need not be unwired.

Steve

 |  IP: Logged

Paul H. Rayton
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Los Angeles, CA , USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 06-08-2008 11:42 PM      Profile for Paul H. Rayton     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Their exact words to us were:
quote:
Read the rules of this forum, Paul.
And so, at that point, we came to the conclusion that they were either uninterested or unable to service it, and did it ourselves.

I did think about sending it to Mark's company, but when it was clear it was a minor problem, we just did it in-house. My service guy sent CE a message over the weekend, maybe they'll reply.

As for Dolby not printing schematics, yes, but, for the most part, they can still repair/exchange cards for their units. And, for a really simple device like an audio monitor, it just baffles me how they couldn't somehow support it now.

And, yes, once we looked into it, it was apparent that it DID appear to be built with servicing in mind... the idea of not having to undo all the various leads where they attach to the back of the box, wow, thank you for that, CE! (Too bad I didn't discover that until we'd already disconnected everything!)

 |  IP: Logged

Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 06-09-2008 12:57 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
RULE #6 Quoting other people's emails. DO NOT DO THIS EVER! Emails are private conversations between people and will not be tolerated if any part of them or all of them are posted here or elsewhere unless the author has given specific permission to reproduce it. Expect to be banned and your post deleted if you ever do this. There is no tolerance with this.

 |  IP: Logged

Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-09-2008 01:28 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
RULE #2 Something seem amiss? ... There is one simple rule to remember. Email the Administrator. It's as simple as that, email the Administrator. Do not fire up new threads. Do not make comments on the forum. Email the Administrator. ... Again, if you want to have your question answered or your concern taken seriously, email the Administrator.

... Did we mention to email the Administrator?


 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-09-2008 08:10 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
Ever noticed that Since the CP55, Dolby does not include the schematics anymore?

Actually if you ask them they will usually oblige if you have a good reason to require them. Although this isn't going to do one much good on the new digital crap.

Mark

 |  IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-09-2008 08:25 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Will Dolby provide source code if you ask nicely?

I don't see why this would be a huge issue as long as they licensed it to be used only on Dolby hardware (so that, for example, someone else couldn't re-use the NR decoding algorithms in another box).

At the very least, it would be good if they made a commitment to release source code when a product is made obsolete so that others could continue to support it.

 |  IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-09-2008 08:38 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dolby won't supply the source to WinDRAS if you ask nicely.

(I don't think its surprising for companies not to supply the source code to firmware/microcode, though. A license is not a whole lot of protection...)

--jhawk

 |  IP: Logged

Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 06-09-2008 10:07 AM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have found CE to have very good customer service in my experience. I always use the phone instead of email as I prefer the personal and instant communication. I think it may have just been not worth the cost of shipping the unit and paying someone to replace ten dollars worth of parts. You did the right thing. Usually in the cinema industry things like that are most often repaired by a third party tech, or a tech that is employed by the cinema not the manufacturer. Look at it this way if they had accepted it for repair you would have spent a fortune to ship it to them and back, and probably paid a lot in labor for them to fix it also. By them refusing to repair it you saved a TON of money and got it fixed for only ten bucks! They could have taken it and charged you a fortune but they didnt. IMO they did you a favor.

 |  IP: Logged

Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-09-2008 12:16 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...and maybe taken 6 months for turnaround, too. A monitor isn't a high-priority item, unfortunately.

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-09-2008 12:56 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Tim Reed
A monitor isn't a high-priority item, unfortunately.

How do you figure? Our company sees any piece of mal-functioning/broken booth gear as having all the same priority level.

Mark

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.