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Author Topic: Analogue soundtracks - variable quality? Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 06-30-2008 02:32 PM                     I am not sure how many people here are still running Dolby SR (or any other analogue sound, for that matter) as their default theatre audio system? If you are, I'd be really interested to know how you are finding the present quality of these non-digital tracks? I'm not too sure if it's my hearing, or our setup, but I'm convinced overall that analogue sound has recently declined in quality. We have the odd (very odd) stunning SR sountrack which seems to restore one's faith in the system, then weeks of very mediocre stuff. The reason I'm unhappy is that I know how superb analogue sound can be. I've heard SR mixes which would easily compete with the very best DTS or DD tracks. Maybe I just need by hearing checked-out!!  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 06-30-2008 03:07 PM                        Better prints are OK on SR; cheaper mixes do not work so much on analog. My hearing agrees with your hearing. Any Harry Potter is excellent! Animated films tend to have better tracks since they are done concurrently with or in advance of picture production....no rush. Yes, analog can be equal to or better than digital. Louis  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 07-05-2008 08:25 AM                     Analogue Optical is our only sound format, and I think it still sounds excellent. The surround separation possible is amazing. Its possible we just have a good lab down here (Atlab) but the quality of their prints is usually excellent, soundtrack included.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 07-05-2008 11:31 AM                        Yah, I've noticed that, too. The analog tracks on some films are pretty dull, compared to digital. The problem is being able to a/b them... then, it really shows up. I've considered running for the test loops on a couple of prints... that is, until we move the show to another screen and find the problem travels with the print.  |  IP: Logged Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 07-05-2008 12:03 PM                     Our copy of 'The Oxford Murders', which we ran two weeks ago, started on reel one with outstanding sound quality then proceeded to go downhill rapidly! Reel two sounded like we had covered all the loudspeakers with duvets! Reel three, though better than two, still did not sound anywhere near as good as one! This standard continued for the rest of the film. When I looked at the analogue tracks through a magnifying glass on the bench, they did indeed look sub-standard. Reel one's track (which sounded good) was clearly defined with plenty of detail visible. The other reels' tracks looked 'foggy' and slightly unfocussed. We got a heap of complaints about the sound on this film! I wondered if the labs were now starting to treat analogue soundtracks as mere 'fallbacks' in case the digital failed, and subsequently not paying too much attention to quality control?  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-05-2008 07:55 PM                        Yah, but if they are "fallbacks," then shouldn't they pay just as much attention to the analog quality so that if indeed the digital does fail, that backup track would be some crap that will make it obvious that there is a problem. I would think that if you get a print with reels that have out-of-focus or fogged analog tracks, you should demand replacement reels ASAP.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 07-05-2008 11:32 PM                     When the film DREAMGIRLS came out, our print came without DTS discs. We ran it in analog for almost a week before the discs arrived. I thought the thing sounded flat and almost like we had some really old woofers that were dying. Got the discs and the difference was impressive. When we moved the print into a smaller house, the bad analog followed. I can understand a bad reel, but the entire film sounding this way? Someone asleep at the wheel while minding the recording of the negative?  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 07-06-2008 01:23 PM                     I agree that a lot of the problems stems for crappy lab work..at UC Irvine, I run a lot of SR prints of new and semi-current (say 2000 and up) releases. I also run a huge number of much older films..and never had any problems. But the films from the last two years or so have had tracks from quite good to downright crap. Some throughout the entire print, and some where only the A or B roll of any given reel was bad.. We have DTS but it has one drawback...we often don't get the discs. But that's a whole 'nother thread..  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-06-2008 04:24 PM                     quote: Andy Frodsham I wondered if the labs were now starting to treat analogue soundtracks as mere 'fallbacks' in case the digital failed, and subsequently not paying too much attention to quality control? Not with the new super-shitty-Deluxe-audio-CRAP-code-from-hell they are now using.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-06-2008 05:47 PM                     It's certainly true that it requires effort to produce a good analog track. There are two obvious stages where things can break down: at the mixing stage, and in the lab. In the mixing stage, a fair amount of care has to be taken to maintain good analog sound separation. Because the analog soundtrack has limitations dictated by the decoding circuitry, the sound mixer has to pay attention to how loud the channels are relative to each other, and details like that. If not, the dematrixing algorithm will not be very effective. At the lab level is where you might encounter reel-to-reel variation. But I would expect this would be pretty rare. As I understand it, the digital soundtracks and the analog soundtrack are printed together from the same negative, so if the analog soundtrack is out of focus from a lab reproduction error, so would the digital soundtracks, and there is very little tolerance for that (well, perhaps DTS has some leeway, but not SRD or SDDS). I guess the analog soundtrack negative could have been recorded out of focus, but there's little excuse for that. If you see a demonstrably defective (e.g. visibly) soundtrack between reels on a print, it is probably worth calling that to the attention of the lab (or the distributing studio). Give them a call and see what they say! --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Paul Lawrence Film Handler Posts: 1 From: Chiswick London England Registered: Jun 2008 posted 07-08-2008 06:01 AM                        I agree with the comments about analogue SR when its good it very good and we at Paramount check every track that is engaged in the printing of our movies for quality. Sadly as much as we try to offer the best prints possible the printing of the SR track can alter the audio playback by moving away from its optimum sound print density. Our chosen film labs do operate the highest level of QC so to ensure that the SR plays to its best performance level , but a rogue print can get passed them.... If a sound track is printed lighter is will offer HF distortion[sibilance ] and if a print is heavier it will sound wooly as all of the HF modulations have been clouded over by overprinting You can have a perfectly good picture density and yet have a sound density that is not. Good to see we have people that care.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-08-2008 01:25 PM                        Thanks for posting. Good to know you are there. (& don't go away!!!) Louis  |  IP: Logged Andy Frodsham Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Stoke on Trent, Staffs, UK Registered: Nov 2006 posted 07-10-2008 05:56 AM                     Unfortunately, our screening of 'The Oxford Murders' (with its less than perfect soundtrack) followed a two-night run of 'The Garage' (a low budget Irish film)! The first reel of this print also had major sound problems which sounded like someone with a motor cycle in the background. On the bench, under my magnifier, there were noticeable white flecks cutting across both the analogue tracks throughout this first reel (almost as if the sountracks themselves were deviating sideways). This looked like it was a lab problem and nothing to do with damage or wear. The rest of the print was average (though not outstanding) sound wise! [ 07-10-2008, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Andy Frodsham ]  |  IP: Logged Tony Ratcliff Expert Film Handler Posts: 216 From: Madison, IN, USA Registered: Mar 2002 posted 07-10-2008 08:16 PM                     We have analog sounds as well. And the differences between the quality of sound on the prints drives me crazy. I can no longer set the volume at one point. I have to set it different for each movie. And the sound is definitely duller. I think the change occurred when the sound track went from silver to cyan. Because when I show a classic movie such as White Christmas, the sound is much louder and clearer. Tony  |  IP: Logged

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