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Author Topic: 16mm Magnetic Sound James Paterson Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Boronia Victoria Australia Registered: Feb 2008 posted 10-02-2008 02:34 AM                    Thought I'd post on this forum - i have a large archive of 16mm mag stripe as well as sep mag track film that i wish to transfer at some point to dvd...however I cant work out what should be kept and what should go because i cannot playback magnetic sound and some of the footage may be important but as i cant hear the sound...it means nothing to me! I have looked on ebay here in oz, and just about everywhere else but i cannot find any (16mm)projectors with mag sound or anything else that will pay it back. I wondered how hard would it be to make your own mag reader...what sound head did they use? Were there ever small mag sound readers that you could put in line to hear the sound (i mean you can always transfer the sound seperately and sync later on the computer) any input here would be appreciated  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-02-2008 02:41 AM                        you might be able to find a synchronizer with mag heads on ebay, though the heads might not be positioned correctly.  |  IP: Logged Stan Gunn Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia Registered: Aug 2000 posted 10-02-2008 04:30 AM                        Hi James. I have all you need to fullfill your needs  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-02-2008 07:26 AM                     James, There are more 16mm projectors that can play mag sound than you might first imagine. First, most of the floor standing 16mm projectors made can handle it. Including Kinoton, Eiki and Elmo as the last of the floor standing 16mm set ups. In fact, Kinoton, to this day, supports 16mm mag on their FP38 series projectors. On the portable front...both Eiki and Elmo definitely supported it on all but the lowest models (16CL, for instance did not for Elmo...but the 16CL-MO did). Look for an Elmo CX-350 or CX-550 projector on eBay...they handle mag and have a nice xenon lamp too for good bright images. I'm sure Eiki (I'm less familiar with them) have similar models. On the Sep-Mag film....they seemed to have come in two varieties...edge track and Center track. If it was recorded with an edge track, I believe that once you find a 16mm mag projector, you would be able to play the sep mag too. Clearly, a dubber would be ideal here. There were various models of portable 16s that also had dubber options (often set up in a back-to-back fashion so that the dubber actually mechanically connected to the projector. Steve Steve  |  IP: Logged James Paterson Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Boronia Victoria Australia Registered: Feb 2008 posted 10-02-2008 08:20 AM                    The problem i have found is that at least on australian ebay, there isnt much to choose from for 16mm projectors. The few that are any good on there are sold by one seller who marks up to very unrealistic prices. The ones you see most often here are the usual "blue" metal EIKI models that all the schools once had which were optical sound only. You see some bell and howells and others but very rarely anything with magnetic sound. Buying from ebay US is a problem because not only shipping would be astronomical (and most sellers wont sell overseas) but the power would be 110v and need an adaptor to work here. I dont really care about brightness or the bulb as i am not intending to project onto anything as such, but rather i am building my own telecine system with a LED lighting source and replacing the lense etc Did many 16mm projectors have variable speed, or switchable 24 to 25fps speed...this is another plus and desired feature for film transfers in the PAL tv standard land. I was thinking of trying to get my hands on an old TP-66 projector and modify it to take a smaller modern camera - but the size and weight would be a problem to get it here let alone if it wouldnt fall through my wooden floor! I do have a ex tv station 16mm BOSCH-FERNSEH flying spot telecine chain in the garage that is in good condition - however the downfall of it is that the main motor, and ONLY the main motor requires 3 phase power (which idont have and cant get put on) the only solution would be to replace the motor with one from a similair (bauer) projector that was single phase but i am told that these were quite rare. You can get 3 phase converter boxes, but i was quoted a few grand for one...and quite simply unless i am getting the work in to support a large outlay i cannot afford to go down that path...as its mostly a "for the love of it" venture  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-02-2008 12:32 PM                     Yea, if you can find a Bell & Howell 202 in a thrift store, this unit also rec/played mag strip 16mm.  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 10-05-2008 01:12 PM                        Graflex also made a portable double-system 16mm based on their slot-load chassis that played mag on the non-operator side.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-05-2008 02:24 PM                     I believe the Graflex was marketed as the Palmer interlock machine  |  IP: Logged Jeff Taylor Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 601 From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY Registered: Apr 2000 posted 10-05-2008 03:12 PM                     If you do decide to go the TP-66 route, Larry Urbanski of Urbanski Film (they're on the web) carries a plug and play video camera that he designed to slide right in the lens carrier of the 66. You can read about it on his website. He's apparently sold it to several film archives. Good luck.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-05-2008 04:31 PM                     Fumeo also made an excellent 16mm machine with both Sepmag and Comag  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-06-2008 04:56 PM                     If, for the moment, you just want to hear what is on the mag track, find an old reel to reel deck (or even an old cassette deck), pull the play head out, and run some well shielded cable to the head. Carefully place the head on the film as it runs through a projector. If you don't care that the EQ will be wrong, just connect a tape head to a mike input.  |  IP: Logged James Paterson Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Boronia Victoria Australia Registered: Feb 2008 posted 10-07-2008 11:22 PM                    so you can extract the sound ok (usable) with a tape recorder head but its not usable just with the head plugges to a mic input? RE: TP-66 I have seen the camera thats sold for these, but i beleive its only available for NTSC markets? Also, what makes this camera so unique (and costly) compared to any other compact cctv type camera? As i have never seen a TP-66 in real life, how does the gate work...is it like any other projector, can you remove the 1000w light bulb and replace with a bright LED for aerial imaging type system? Just wondered if its the same as any other projector or if they had a different system for television and the multiplexer island they used to join up with  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-08-2008 07:54 PM                     Your orignal post sounded like, for now, you just wanted to be able to hear what is on the film, so you can decide what to keep. What is used in a projector to playback the mag track IS a tape head, and the same sort of electronics as in a tape deck. I think that the speed of 16MM is somewhat close to 7.5 IPS, so that EQ setting should be OK. If you are just looking to hear what is on the film (not record it to something) pluging a tape head into a mike input will work (the EQ will be a bit off). I have done this for a quick check to make sure that there is audio on 70MM mag tracks, while checking the film on rewinds.  |  IP: Logged James Paterson Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Boronia Victoria Australia Registered: Feb 2008 posted 10-30-2008 10:08 AM                    I've finally got my hands on a ST1901 steenbeck 6 plate editing desk and i am so excited!...there should be no problems now getting the audio from the film - although I've yet to work out how you get the audio from the machine to the computer or other device. I have noticed that steenbeck sold a video tap add on, to allow you to transfer film to video through the machine. I wondered exactly how this worked and if it is possible to make a system yourself. Unfortunately finding much specific info on the net about this or indeed the steenbecks themselves can be quite hard. perhaps someone can offer some suggestions/info or have experience with the video tap i mentioned above?  |  IP: Logged

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