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Author Topic: Print quality from DeLuxe Toronto? John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-25-2008 02:47 PM                     I've encountered two seperate problems with DeLuxe Toronto prints of late. Last week, reels two and three of our Bolt print were scratched. This was especially embarassing because it was a sneak, and a Disney Rep was there and noticed the scratches. My Managing Director asked me to investigate to determine what had occurred, as I had not made up this show. I found intermittent verticle black scratches on both reels. These scratches appear on the heads and tails of both reels, hence indicative of a lab problem. We have since replaced both reels for the regular run of that print. This print came from DeLuxe Toronto. Today I made up a Transporter 3 print. Found two lab splices in reel 4, and in removing them observed several feet of discoloration at both splices. I seems that lately every time there is a print quality issue, it's out of Toronto. Am I the only one? Just bad luck, or is this something I have to look forward to in the future? Anyone else had problems lately?  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-25-2008 03:06 PM                     My impression is that Deluxe Toronto indeed gets somewhat of a bad rap here on Film-Tech, so I have a suspicion you're going to get a lot of "me too!" -type responses (deserved, or not, I can't really say). That in mind, it's worth thinking about other issues. Like were you the only theatre to play that Bolt sneak? It sounds like you're in a great position to get Disney to bat for you in lodging an inquiry with Deluxe about it. I'm under the impression that most of the east coast gets prints from Deluxe Toronto and the west coast from Deluxe Hollywood, so another question is what your sample size is like -- or are you comparing to Technicolor? (and if so, to Tech. North Hollywood or Technicolor Mirabel?) Presumably you get more prints from Deluxe than Technicolor. [ To be honest, I'm not even sure how I'd identify a Deluxe Toronto print from a Deluxe Hollywood print. They used to have fancy lettering on the titles, but I haven't seen that in ages. What's the distinction? ] Can anyone offer some contacts at Deluxe to talk to about lab issues? Technicolor's really quite good about having that stuff on their web page but I've never found similar contact info for the Deluxe folks. (On the other hand, I've never had enough of an incentive go looking terribly hard. I have talked to the folks at Deluxe Hollywood, but only about small printing jobs, not volume release printing issues...) Edit: OK, Deluxe does publish some contact information for their various locations: Contact Us. So there's definitely a reasonable place to start. --jhawk [ 11-25-2008, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: John Hawkinson ]  |  IP: Logged John Caswell Film Handler Posts: 35 From: Liverpool, Merseyside, UK Registered: Oct 2006 posted 11-25-2008 04:40 PM                     Hi, I'm quite a way from Toronto but we've been finding discolouration around lab splices recently too. Usually has a bit of a green tint, but noticeable on screen. I always order a new reel if I spot this whilst making-up. It kinda reminds me of the 'end-of-roll' markings on till receipt rolls.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-25-2008 04:47 PM                     Well, let's talk about the technical details. A lab splice is a splice made in darkroom conditions, often in the presence of a darkroom safelight so the operator can see what he or she is doing. Unlike black and white photography, for color photography (including process ECP-2D, which is what release prints use), the amount of time that undeveloped film can be exposed to a safelight is pretty short. As a result, it is quite common for the area of film around a lab splice to show signs of "safelight fogging." Typically this is because: (1) the operator took too long to make the splice; (2) the safelight filters have degraded (they age quickly) and are no longer effective, and thus let too much light through; or (3) the operator used an unapproved portable illumination device. So checking for discoloration around lab splices is a normal thing. My impression is that discoloration around lab splices is to be expected, perhaps around the rate of one in twenty. More than that probably indicates a consistent problem at the lab. So yes, requesting a new reel is the right thing to do, and if the problem is consistent, perhaps you should make more noise. It might be worth keeping a log of the copy numbers (individual numbers and/or barcodes on particular reels), since the labs (at least Deluxe and Technicolor) can track down the origin of the reel pretty precisely. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-25-2008 08:11 PM                     It is also possible that the print was screened somewhere on reels before you got it possibly at QC in the lab or at the distributors head office  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-26-2008 04:15 AM                     I played a Bolt a few weeks back. Brand new print. It was not pre-screened on a changeover setup, which is obvious when the print is from Deluxe Toronto as some reels are heads and some are tails and the orientation of which it is delivered was the end with the white tape behind the title. Anyway, my reel 5 was scratched and had some very weird discolorations in the last 5 minutes of the movie. Living in Texas, I routinely get most prints from Deluxe Toronto, but every couple of months I will get a print from Deluxe Toronto and another copy of the same movie from Deluxe in LA. The LA prints are ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS noticeably better. They are SIGNIFICANTLY more steady, they have better colors and contrast and they have less negative dirt. Of course any print from Technicolor's labs in Canada or LA are always very good. This is something confined to Deluxe Toronto...so yeah John "me too"! By the way, prints from Deluxe Toronto have different stickers and will have a "K19" in the corner which in this example would mean "Bell & Howell model K printer #19". The prints out of LA are stamped "L4", which in that example would be "loop printer #4".  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-02-2008 09:33 PM                     The printers in question on the defective reels of Bolt were K1 and K6. JHawk, The Disney people are aware of the problem, as our Managing Director emailed our local Disney guy with my findings, and replacement reels were sent well before the break. The ball is in the Mouse's court now. To answer your second question, I rarely if ever have a problem with Technicolor prints. The mix with Technicolor vs. DeLuxe is about even for us. As to the problem with the Transporter 3 reel, it is definately a safelight problem. While 2 lab splices on a reel is not uncommon, certainly discoloration at each one (effecting several feet of the projectible areas) is something I have never encountered before. Unfortunately, I left word to request a replacement reel with our staff, but no one followed up. Gordon, sorry I can't answer as to whether the two reels from Bolt were run before, as I did not build that print and had no way of knowing the orientation of those two reels. However, if they were run for QC, someone missed the boat.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 12-02-2008 11:26 PM                     I get off early on Sundays and stuck around to watch the 6pm BOLT show at my theater. Reel 4 had a section about 30-50sec of pretty bad water marks or some sort of other chemical blotches near the end. Very distracting! Since it appeared to be a new print when received and I'm the only person to have handled it (up till Sunday nite) I'm positive it came from the lab that way.  |  IP: Logged

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