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Author Topic: Cinemeccanica X400 vertical auxiliary reflector Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 02-14-2009 07:08 AM                     Hi everyone. Im new here, and am a little nervousabout tapping into such a wealth of knowledge so I'll get right to the point of my thread. I have two Cinemeccanica X 400 lamphouses (not X 4000) that I am rejuvenating and would like to hear your comments. The lamps are in good condition with 400mm glass main reflectors but are missing the auxiliary reflectors. I would like to know just how critical these auxiliaries are and if I am wasting time looking for replacements. I have read on the forums that a lot of verticals had the auxiliaries removed, probably due to either the difficulty in adjusting them or from damage to cathode tips due to misalignment. What ever the reasons were, would removing the auxiliaries degrade the screen coverage enough to warrant getting replacements? I would prefer to bring these lamps back to original if possible. I have searched optical manufacturers with the aim of getting them made but I have no original to copy from. These reflectors are no longer available from Cinemeccanica and "Officiale Gallileo", the original reflector maker is now into Aerospace. So that's my dilemma. If these reflectors are hiding somewhere I would like to get two please, but if that is not possible -and the lamp's performance will be judged inadequate with just the main reflector for a 40' wide screen with 2.5K xenon- would there be a refit kit available that would fit these lamphouses? I have read alot from Mark about the "Technilites" but are these a cost effective option?...and are they available in Oz? Just in case anyone asks me why I like verticals...I can put up with the painful adjustments as thats really a "one-off" when replacing the lamps. But the ones I have seen - in particular the Zeiss vertical from the Brighton Bay and Cinemeccanicas at East End 1 in Melbourne were very good with high contrast and sharpness and long lamp life. You choose your poisons.... If anyone has any ideas whatsoever about these X400's, please throw them up here. Im open to lots of suggestions. Thanks for a terrific forum  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 02-14-2009 07:14 AM                     I had trouble lighting screens over 30 feet without the auxilary using a 2k bulb. Even light output is another problem. Auxilary worked fine but was prone to operator error requiring service calls. This was in the 1980's and all have been retired.  |  IP: Logged Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 02-14-2009 07:56 AM                     Hi! I do service many cinemas which are still use vertical lamp house. The auxiliary reflector is very important because not that they just give you more light, but you will have more better illumination across screen with it, to bad I can't find my pics, in one cinema I did took picture of screen with and without aux reflector, difference is obviously as there are 35% more light with aux mirror, but just look at optical system, you will see that lamp is projecting light across whole ark, so 360degree, but main reflector did surrounding lamp only about 180 or 210 degree....rest of light if there is no aux mirror are waisted!! Also, during alignment you must get reverse picture of arc in place of original arc of bulb, and set it like that that electrodes are just to touch, but not touching...i know is tricky :)Next thing which is important is do you have ark reflector on back of lamphouse so you can see arc from almp, and reflecting arc from aux mirror when adjusting? But you can use smaller mirror and put it between bulb and main miror, there you will have picture of original arc and arc reflected from aux mirror (upside picture than on bulb) so you do same thing, adjust aux mirror in that manner that picture of electrodes (arc) are just in middle of in electrodes of bulb. Also, I newer have any problems with alignment, even it can take me a 45min to do on some machines which are bit complicated because they don't have all setting knobs on back side and similar. It's difficult to find this mirrors now, I know maybe Weule in germany do have some in stock, but Meopta do have some in stock dating from mid 80's, only Meopta mirrors are not good as Weule as and they do have problems probably because they are old that reflecting surface from them are falling off, I remember that I did get 2-3 pieces new because claim of warranty. As you said reflector is 400mm, taht's kinda strange, I know models were with 355 and 380mm diameter, smaller were 100mm and bigger 120mm depth as I think. Here in my town are open-air with 55' (16,5meter) wide screen, the projection with 2,5KW lamp is good, well it won't be bad to have more light, but with 380mm main mirror + aux mirror from Meopta picture is fine, I did compare it to one plex, they have bit bigger screen but just bit bigger meter or so with 5KW on cinemeccanica and picture is same!!  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 02-15-2009 02:12 PM                     Many thanks for your reply Marin. It's good to know that there are still some of these lamps out there. I thought I had made a mistake in the main reflector diametre but the two mirrors are definetly 400mm across the open aperture, they are even quoted in the manual as part #9697 = 350mm and part #9698 = 400mm. Maybe these are slightly different to the ones you have? Part # 9666 = auxilliary mirror No Longer Available. I did a web-search on Weuel and arrived at their page but alas it is in German, a language I am not fluent in. I will try an email anyway to see what happens. Would you have contact details such as web-site or email address for Meopta? I would like to try as many places as I can because I would really like to get these reflectors if I can because I agree with you fully in that there would have to be much wasted light from the front of the bulb if the auxilliary was not there. To order these auxilliary reflectors, would I have to supply the Lamphouse make and model, or would I have to supply the shape profile, dimensions and coating? Because I have no original reflector to quote from, would you have these dimensions you could post here? If all else fails, I can use these dimensions to get some made. Many Thanks for your help and guidance Marin.It is very much appreciated. Ian  |  IP: Logged Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 02-15-2009 02:44 PM                     Well, my mirrors are definitely 355mm and 380mm bigger one, but ok there are probably some version from time to time. Now, the auxiliary mirror should be in pair with main, but I think a different type could work also, as it's purpose is to reflect light back to main reflector. You can reach Meopta and Weule on this web sites and under contact both will respond you on english. But I doubt Welue has any vertical mirrors still on stock, as they are out of production, which is bad because I know some installed back in 1987 still as new with 2500W bulbs and they are perfect, Meopta is poorer, and they have different light color from mirror to mirror, so if you're running changeover you need to match them, as they have reflecting color number on it, so you must find that they have similar as possible number on it, but Meopta could have some on stock still but only 380mm main and I think 100mm auxillary. I might have drawning of mirror somewhere, but who will made it for you, as you must know high temperature is there??  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 02-16-2009 02:34 PM                       The secondary reflector helps fill the edges out.  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 02-16-2009 02:55 PM                     Hi Marin. Any dimensioned drawings or photos that you have to post here would be of great help. If I can dig up a supplier I will let you know. Cheers Ian  |  IP: Logged Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 02-16-2009 03:34 PM                     Holding one aux mirror just now, so dimensions are: I will try to find drowning, but till now, this are dimension I measure: 98mm diameter height is 76mm depth is about 38mm Here is that reflector: And same in lamp house with 380mm main reflector:  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 02-18-2009 04:16 AM                     Thanks heaps Marin. Thats just the info I need.  |  IP: Logged David Kilderry Master Film Handler Posts: 355 From: Melbourne Australia Registered: Sep 1999 posted 02-18-2009 05:18 AM                        Hi Ian, great to see you on here! From my experience with Zeiss and Cinemeccanica verticals you loose about a third of your light without an aux reflector. You loose even more if the aux is there and it is almost black! I'll have a think about who you may try locally for these. Good luck with it. David  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 02-18-2009 05:23 AM                     Hi Buddy! Many thanks for the greetings. It would seem right to lose a fair slice of light without the auxilliaries, but trying to get them is almost impossible. It would be a shame to junk good engineering for want of a few pieces of glass. Hope the Luna is going strong.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-18-2009 06:52 AM                     More than loosing light the issue is eveness of coverage With only a single reflector one will have a cone of illumination on the screen a bright spot usually in the bottom 1/4 or third of the screen and a cone traveling upwards decreasing in light The aux reflector produces an inverted version of that either way vertical lamps do not have all that even light Ziess had honeycomb filters available for the snood (as did Hughes/Christie) to smooth out the light  |  IP: Logged

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