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Author Topic: Vertical film scratches on Simplex 1050 (resolved?) Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 07-04-2009 11:27 PM                        Christie AW3 platter, Simplex 1050 with Simples sound head, SRD sound. My print of Ice Age got scratched on the second or third day. It's numerous parallel and perfectly vertical black scratches running through pretty much the whole print. Most are very thin, but there is one about 1/8 in on the non-soundtrack side which is fairly large. I've been running the print with Film-Guard since I discovered the scratches - about 5 shows now. Some of the scratches are becoming less noticeable, so that is encouraging. In this situation, can I be fairly certain these are base side scratches? Would it even be possible to have black emulsion scratches like this? What are the likely culprits for these scratches. I'm inclined to think the pinch roller for the sound drum, but I don't know. I will say that the rubber on the pinch roller seems to be dry and cracked.  |  IP: Logged Matt Young Film Handler Posts: 36 From: Kearney, NE, USA Registered: Jun 2009 posted 07-04-2009 11:46 PM                        yes those are scratches on the base side of the film. if they were on the emulsion side they would be green/yellow. check every single roller from start to finish for flat spots or burs etc... check the drum in your soundhead to make sure it is spinning freely as well. that's all i can think of  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 07-04-2009 11:50 PM                     You can get black scratches on either side. Look at the actual film and see which side it is on! The side facing the lamphouse is the emulsion, side facing the lens is the base. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-05-2009 12:37 AM                     Good case that it was a misthread somewhere - film missed a roller. Look for some pink 'fuzz' on any roller arm. Spin the sound drum. If you got some bearing that are getting to drag, that drum will not roll along with the speed of the film and this does some nasty scratching...and that is base side of where the film and drum make contact. horizontal scratches are from the platter - did someone drag the film across the roller on the takeup arm underneath? Some areas to look at... -Monte  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 07-05-2009 01:27 AM                        quote: Monte L Fullmer horizontal scratches are from the platter These are vertical scratches running from the top of the frame to the bottom. These are definitely base side scratches. They are very visible and I can feel them when I run my fingernail sideways across the frame. I've explored the entire film path and I can't find any place obvious where the scratches might have happened.  |  IP: Logged Jon P. Inghram Expert Film Handler Posts: 124 From: Wichita, KS USA Registered: Jan 2007 posted 07-05-2009 01:59 AM                     On a AW3 it's possible to thread the film over the metal bracket on the bottom roller on the sliding cluster and put nice fine black scratches down the entire print.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-05-2009 08:22 AM                     You didn't say if the scratches stood perfectly still, or if they had a rhythmic bounce to them slightly left to right. (Only older AW3s with the black rollers could Jon's example above happen.)  |  IP: Logged James Westbrook Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1133 From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa Registered: Mar 2006 posted 07-05-2009 02:14 PM                     If you can rule out the sound drum - I am assuming you have a Simplex 5 Star sound head with that 1050 - check the bottom most pad rollers in the sound head. I have seen these freeze up and start scratching a print.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 07-05-2009 03:59 PM                        Brad, the scratches are pretty much steady through the entire film. After looking at things more closely, I'm left to think the person who threaded that show may have threaded through the wrong spot on the brain wrap detector. This would have left the film dragging on a metal shaft - although I'm not sure the scratches would have been perfectly steady in this case. The other possibility is the person had the film inside one of the posts on the brain, but I don't see how this wouldn't have caused a brain wrap. I'm going to have to spend more time looking at it closely when I get in today. Brad's comment making me realize the scratches were steady leads me to think more and more that it's a place where the film is locked into place.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-06-2009 12:10 AM                        What kind of "Simples" sound head do you have? 5-star or the SH1000 or whatever it is called? 5-Stars have the swinging tension arm. The other kind has two sprockets after the actual sound drum.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-06-2009 02:49 AM                     If the scratches are steady, you can pretty much rule out the platter.  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Althaus Master Film Handler Posts: 435 From: Bedford, TX Registered: Dec 2008 posted 07-09-2009 01:20 PM                     We have 1050's here and one had non-soundtrack side vertical scratches. Turns out a screw and spacer were missing on the intermittent shoe. The intermittent was rubbing on the misaligned film.  |  IP: Logged Justin Hamaker Film God Posts: 2253 From: Lakeport, CA USA Registered: Jan 2004 posted 08-14-2009 06:54 PM                        I've had these same scratches turn up on several more prints, all in the same house. I've been over the projector and platters with a fine tooth comb, and I can't find anything obviously wrong. I have run several test loops to try and find the source of the scratches and the only thing I found that would duplicate them is someone threading the film over the bracket for the bottom roller on the take-up side, rather than in the roller. Although I can see this possibly happening once, I just can't see it happening multiple times. One thing I have found is that the rubber wheel on two of the platter decks were worn pretty badly. On one deck the wheel looked dried and shriveled and on the other it was like it had been ground down by running the platter. It does seem this was causing inconsistent speed, which could have been causing the base side to be dragging on the split fingers for the brain. In fact, on one brain there was a bit of a grove cut into the inside finger about the height of the top of 35mm film. I just don't know if this combination would cause vertical scratches that are perfectly steady. Any thoughts appreciated.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 08-14-2009 07:21 PM                     A picture might be helpful... --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Jon Petersen Film Handler Posts: 6 From: Des Moines, IA Registered: Nov 2008 posted 03-05-2010 06:32 PM                        ...well...what happened? I came across this thread with very little hope in my heart. But I felt a giddiness grow inside my belly as I read Justin's dilemma. I am having the SAME problem. Long, thin, black scratches from my Simplex 1050! The more I read Justin's post, the more and more it sounded like I had written it myself. I have checked and rechecked and re-rechecked every inch of the film path and found nothing. "This is it! Here comes the solution!", I thought. These forums have always supplied me with more answers and useful advice than I can say. I love the community aspect that you all have built. There is an amazing partnership among all of you as well as a feeling of 'these-people-really-understand-me' that makes me feel both welcome and envious. I truly thank you all for the free advice that you have unknowingly given me. I am sorry that I haven't thanked you all before and I feel a bit ashamed to say it now, as I ask for even more help. Justin, I guess I am directing this your way: What happened? Did you find the source of the scratches? I feel like the last pages of a mystery novel were ripped out of my book. I thought I had a solution coming my way as I scrolled down the page, but no. Maybe I don't deserve and answer, seeing as how I have freeloaded for so long. But I swear by my dog that from now on, I will attempt to actually contribute to these boards, rather than just take. I will leave behind my selfish ways and attempt to make these boards even better with the inclusion of my limited knowledge. I patiently and humble await a reply.  |  IP: Logged

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