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Author Topic: Blacking out frame markings Cathal Griffin Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Galway, Ireland Registered: Feb 2009 posted 08-19-2009 01:12 PM                        Hi All, We have an issue with film certs being supplied with frame markings running into the sound. With scope movies, we have to cut off frames of sound so that the markings don't appear on screen. On this one here, I've had to cut 4 frames of sound... My question: Is there any way of blacking out the frame markings so that they won't be visible on screen? Maybe a tape that could be applied over it. Cheers, Cathal  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 08-19-2009 03:43 PM                     Not entirely sure what you're showing us there Cathal. Keep on example handy and we'll look at it in a few weeks.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 08-19-2009 03:50 PM                     Black permanent marker pen on the base side seems to do a pretty good job of blocking out anything on film. Just make sure that it's dry before winding it onto the reel, so that it doesn't come off onto the next layer of film.  |  IP: Logged Cathal Griffin Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Galway, Ireland Registered: Feb 2009 posted 08-19-2009 03:52 PM                        Will do Pete. Just to clarify, this is the head of a 35mm cert that is attached to the feature. In an ideal world, I would have left those 4 frames on the clip but can't because if i did, the markings (at top and bottom of frame) would flash up on screen.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-19-2009 04:57 PM                     There's really not. If you use black marker, it won't cover them up completely and you'll have black moving around over the frame markings (unless you're an animator and can get it exact on each frame). You could use tape, but if it comes away or is affected by Film Guard, you'll have a nasty mess to clean up one way or another. Short of the labs not putting them there in the first place knowing full well it's going to go on screen or be cut off (yeah, right) I'm afraid you have simply 2 choices...neither of which are ideal. Cut them off and chop the sound or leave them on and have them on screen. Of course, if you're a single screen you could dowser off between the trailers so they don't go on but obviously that's not practical on anything more than a single or twin screen booth. Looking at that strip of film, I'm guessing the lab doesn't give a rats ass about what they do. Look at the Dolby Digital track for God's sake. Shoddy work all round.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 08-19-2009 06:18 PM                     John, I was ale to get black markers in the local stationery store which would black out film completely, but not all of them would do this; I always used to buy the same ones, because I knew they would. I replaced them frequently; they were still usable for other purposes after they'd stopped being good for use on film. Also used them for touching out marks in the black between adverts, and blooping splices.  |  IP: Logged Cathal Griffin Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Galway, Ireland Registered: Feb 2009 posted 08-19-2009 06:28 PM                        Cheers guys. You don't happen to remember a brand name do you Stephen?  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 08-19-2009 08:10 PM                        "India Ink" works the best and was the original (1927) bloop technique. Louis  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-19-2009 08:40 PM                     (What I was gonna say with Louis beating me to it... ) India Ink is totally jet black fluid stuff that light will not penetrate. You have to put it on the emulsion side of the film to really work since it will soak into the emulsion.. I used to use India Ink to bloop out the soundtrack area when doin wet splicing on occasion. Trick was to get a fine tip fountain pen and actually "paint" a triangle over the splice in the soundtrack area. This triangle would reduce, or even eliminate any 'bloops' when the splice went through the scanner drum optical reader. You can get India Ink at any stationery store - but could try art supply stores as well. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 08-20-2009 09:36 AM                       I wonder if masking off the track and the beginning of the pix, and then hitting the emulsion with a blast of matte black spray paint would work?  |  IP: Logged Michael Brown Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1522 From: Bradford, England Registered: May 2001 posted 08-20-2009 02:59 PM                     quote: Cathal Griffin Just to clarify, this is the head of a 35mm cert that is attached to the feature. Why is there soundtrack on a cert? In england the certs just have silence.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 08-20-2009 03:12 PM                     I may piss off a lot of people here, but I have to ask: why the fuss? We're talking about FOUR FRAMES worth, which in real time is 1/6 of ONE second. And the problem is only on scope in this case. I can promise you that 99.99% of your audience either doesn't even notice this or cares about it. I also strive for perfection in projection, but we're not talking about a HUGE distraction in the FEATURE film, so why go to the extremes? Oh, and a very simple solution if the theatre is automated and uses a cue to open the dowser..move the cue four frames up to delay the dowser the 1/6 of a second. Or if your automation opens the dowser at a specific time from the start command, simply roll down four extra frames before you press the start button. quote: Tim Reed I wonder if masking off the track and the beginning of the pix, and then hitting the emulsion with a blast of matte black spray paint would work? In theory, not a bad idea. I wouldn't try it in practice though, because you have to deal with the extended drying time of paint, and most paints aren't flexible enough to take the abuse of running through a projector, which means you WILL have a LOT of dirt specks migrating onto the film. The best idea is use a black marker to darken those frame lines..again, so what if it isn't perfectly blacked out? For the blink of time it would be onscreen, it would not be noticeable. Again, I see a lot of wasted energy on something so trivial.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-21-2009 07:43 PM                        Louis's India ink is great, but you have to have a pretty steady hand; we found this black tape works well too. It is excellent for a variety of film-related needs. It makes a great sound blooping tape; we also use it when a splice comes in with too much of a gap which allows the film to hinge, a strip of this tape across the splice will both reenforce it as well as stop the soundtrack pop. It would work fine covering up those frame lines, Cathal. We use it all the time on older prints to cover up those mutilated cue frames with all manner of handmade cues. I've even used it to bloop out a entire sentence on the soundtrack of a old trailer which said "Coming this summer"....we were playing that title in January. I just marked the spot on the soundtrack as it ran thru the reader and then laid a strip of this black tape over the soundtrack -- the sound just noiselessly dropped out for that few seconds. What's nice about it is that when it's applied to the emulsion side, it has never come off in the projector; it's pretty agressive. We get it here: Blooping Film Tape - MisterArt.com This place also has great prices on other good booth stuff like -- White Artist Tape and Silver Sharpies -- if you haven't discovered this new marker from Sharpie, it really is great for printing identication on film leaders; it matters not if the leader is clear leader or black or anything in between -- you can see it clearly from the other side of the room, even in a fairly dark booth.  |  IP: Logged Jarret Chessell Master Film Handler Posts: 288 From: London, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jan 2009 posted 08-21-2009 08:05 PM                     Does the dolby digital really look that bad on there, or is it shadows around the perfs?  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 08-21-2009 08:16 PM                     Pretty sure it's a dud track.  |  IP: Logged

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