Film-Tech Cinema Systems
  Home     Products     Store     Forum     Warehouse     Contact Us    
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Bad Frame-Lines On Screenvision Ads?

   
Author Topic: Bad Frame-Lines On Screenvision Ads?
Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

- posted 12-05-2009 09:00 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a mixture of Dolby Digital and DTS auditoriums.
Since there is never a DTS track on the screenvision
ads, I must play them in Dolby analog in the DTS
audioriums and assmble all ads with the assumption
that at some point during the run the print will
be played on both types of sound systems.

Here's the problem- -
The frame lines printed 'in the black' before the
first image on the screenvision ads are non-standard.
They are not exactly in the proper position relative
to the sprocket holes, and the black does not extend
all the way to the non-soundtrack side of the film.

When projected, the frame lines and a white bar on
the right side are clearly visable on the screen.

It looks "sloppy".

My dilemna is that if I cut off the section of
black/framline before the first image frame, I
will truncate the first word or the opening notes
on the sound track, since the track begins in that
badly framelined section of film.

It sounds "sloppy".

This is really only a problem in SCOPE, since the
framlines are masked by the 1:85 aperature plate
on the FLAT ads.

My scope plates are all cut to spec. and in one
auditorium the plate is actually slightly under-
sized, and it still can't hide the bad frames.

Does anyone else have to deal with this problem?
It seems I'm stuck with either having sloppy picture
or sloppy sound when assembling screenvision ads.

 |  IP: Logged
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 12-05-2009 10:45 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The Screenvision ads I have seen recently come pre-spliced together, and they don't seem to care about the soundtrack. They frequently just cut on the first frame of the image, and the ads often arrive scratched. So I say, just do it their way. Heck you can even drag them around the floor to make them more authentic! Remember, it is impossible to put on a good presentation with Screenvision rolling stock, so don't lose any sleep over it.

 |  IP: Logged
Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 12-05-2009 11:15 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Would judicious application of a black Sharpie marker solve it?

 |  IP: Logged
Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 12-05-2009 11:35 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Can your automation be flexible enough to cue a dowser close to kill the screen image during that short period and then open again? Although that might work, I am with Brad -- if that's the way they have printed the ads, then pick the worst of two evils -- I would go with cutting off the offending image and let the sound fall where it may. These are freakin ADS remember -- audiences hate them; they are not going to mind hearing less than a second of sound jump.

Of course there is a third solution, and we all know what it is.... [beer]

 |  IP: Logged
Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

- posted 12-06-2009 08:30 PM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Frank Angel
Can your automation be flexible enough to cue a dowser close to kill the screen image during that short period and then open again?
No, but I can program it so that the dowser doesn't
open and the sound doesn't switch until AFTER all
the ads have passed through . . . hahahaha

But seriously- I'm going to take Brad's advice
and not loose any sleep over it, especially after
what happened today.

Last night, before I went home, at the request of
management, I spliced one more ad at the head of
the pack in one of the auditoriums. When I went
downstairs after starting the first round of
matinees today, the box office told me that there
had been 'complaints about the sound' in that
auditorum when I started that show.

I went back upstairs and could find no problems
with the threading or sound system so I just
figured it was some guy with a bad hearing aid
battery.

But,right after I started the 2nd show of the day
in that same auditorium, I noticed a number of people
turning around looking up at the booth a few seconds
into the first ad. I turned up the booth monitor
a bit louder and noticed the level was a little
"off". So I stepped out into the auditorium and
the sound track was "pumping" from loud to soft
every few seconds. It sounded like someone had
attached the main volume control knob to a yo-yo.

But as soon as that ad ended, everything was OK.
(Unfortunately, it was a long ad - 2min 30sec)

So I pulled the ad off before the next show and
discovered the sound track density printing
varied greatly throughout length of the ad.
It looked like the raw stock might have been
light struck & edge fogged along the soundtrack.

So much for quality control at the lab.

So, as several people have suggested- - I'm going
to do the best I can with what I've got to work
with, but I'm not going to obsess over it any more!

Most people ignore the ads anyway. They're too busy
chatting, texting or twittering and one guy today
was using a laptop during the pre-show show stuff.

Ironically - - they'll all complain about the ads
they're ignoring though if the picture or sound
isn't right! [Roll Eyes]

 |  IP: Logged
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 12-07-2009 01:01 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
That's because they are afraid their actual movie might sound like that.

 |  IP: Logged
Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 12-07-2009 01:10 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jim Cassedy
But as soon as that ad ended, everything was OK.
(Unfortunately, it was a long ad - 2min 30sec
Is that the dumb "National Guard" ad?

Some ads have SRD encoding on them and some are just plain optical. I assemble these ads where the optical ones play first then into the SRD set when I have this print in an SRD house.

DTS house, I don't care on what order I do them since it's gonna be all optical anywhos..

'sides, when people see we have 5 mins of ads, they head back to the snakbar anyway..

-Monte

 |  IP: Logged
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 12-07-2009 02:13 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Screenvision is a horrible company full of incompetence only used by cheap theater chains who will take any kind of ad revenue they can get. Like Brad suggested, it is impossible for them to do a good job over at Screenvision.

If I were an advertiser, I would not use Screenvision as they would make my ads look and sound horrible. We should start an e-mail campaign to the Screenvision advertisers to let them know what a horrible job Screenvision does and how bad their ads look as a result. Providing evidence would certainly not be difficult.

 |  IP: Logged
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 12-07-2009 02:39 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The one thing they do well is with their DCI content. They are smart enough to make them full container so they work with either flat or scope formats. I just wish they would enlarge them enough to fill the height of scope.

Funny thing though, they are LOUDER than the trailers! I just program the fader to crank those damned things way down. This is a typical scenario:

Screenvision evilnees 3.2 (no surrounds, no subs)
Trailers 4.0 (no surrounds, no subs)
Feature 7.0

Never a complaint!

 |  IP: Logged
Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 12-07-2009 07:27 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anyone tried complaining to Screenvision? Maybe if you started sending the things back to Screenvision saying they are defective, and asking for a replacment (and the ad misses its air date), they would wake up, and fix things.

 |  IP: Logged
Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006

- posted 12-09-2009 12:37 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Monte L Fullmer
Is that the dumb "National Guard" ad?
How did you guess? [Big Grin]

 |  IP: Logged
Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 12-09-2009 03:25 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bruce, more likely than not, Screenvision would just find you in "non-compliance" for not playing the ads and they would not send you a check.

 |  IP: Logged
Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

- posted 12-09-2009 08:59 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not if you call Screenpoop and tell them they sent you defective prints. Call them and tell them you want a replacement.

The way Screenpuke makes money is that they are selling your screen at a higher price to the advertisers than they are paying you. So yah, they can opt to not send you a check (although there may be a counter legal issue there of who is in breach of complance if they are sending you a defective product), but if they don't send you a check, then they also loose your screen play, and then THEY don't get paid for your screen time. If enough subscribing exhibitors refused to play ads that were printed defectively and refuse to play them until they got corrected replacements, I'll bet Screenkaka would pay a bit more attention to their lab quality.

But of course that would require exhibitors to GIVE A FLYING SHEET about their presentation.

Now THERE'S a catch 22 -- if they gave a crap about their presentation, they wouldn't be running Screenturds, now would they?

Never mind.

 |  IP: Logged
Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007

- posted 12-09-2009 11:52 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From when I dealt directly with them, calling for replacement stuff just gets you on an answering machine that appeared to only be checked once every few days or once every week.

We hadn't gotten enough scope ads one time. We got so tired of having to program in lens changes just to get the stuff on-screen that the manager had me call every single day for more ads. By the time they actually sent the pieces of crud, we'd already received a whole new set of ads anyway (and by some stroke of magic, we had enough).

 |  IP: Logged
Geena Phillips
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 198
From: Norcross, GA / USA
Registered: Apr 2006

- posted 12-12-2009 11:51 AM      Profile for Geena Phillips   Author's Homepage   Email Geena Phillips   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Joe Redifer
Screenvision is a horrible company full of incompetence only used by cheap theater chains who will take any kind of ad revenue they can get. Like Brad suggested, it is impossible for them to do a good job over at Screenvision.
QFT.

quote: Bruce Hansen
Has anyone tried complaining to Screenvision? Maybe if you started sending the things back to Screenvision saying they are defective, and asking for a replacment (and the ad misses its air date), they would wake up, and fix things.
Unfortunately, Bruce, Screenvision is handled by Technicolor (talk about the blind leading the blind!), who make it clear when you talk to them that they have no real say (like, for example, when you complain about them NEVER SENDING ENOUGH ADS). The only effective way to tackle things is from the top down; the only results I've ever gotten have been through our V.P. of Marketing talking to Screenvision directly.

 |  IP: Logged


All times are Central (GMT -6:00)  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
- Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.