my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Amega M-3 Fullcoat recorder

Author Topic: Amega M-3 Fullcoat recorder Chris Maness Film Handler Posts: 4 From: Grand Terrace, CA Registered: Jan 2010 posted 01-17-2010 12:13 AM                        I am restoring a sync sound fullcoat recorder. This recorder has the ability to slave off of a projector to run at exactly the same frame rate as the projector. Does anyone know if there was any standards for sync pulses or pilot tone back in the late 60's to early 70's. It takes a six pin amphenol (military type) connector to tether it to a camera. I would imagine it was used for gathering news. It takes 16mm fully magnetic coated sound recording material. Thanks, Chris Maness  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-17-2010 10:10 AM                     I would have thought the Amega used selsyn mnotors to operate in interlock. Both motors have to be the same or at least compatable with each other. Since the late 70's all interlocks have been electronic using either DC servos or stepper motor drive. They exactly follow an encoder mounted somewhere convenient on the projector or sound head. Mark  |  IP: Logged Chris Maness Film Handler Posts: 4 From: Grand Terrace, CA Registered: Jan 2010 posted 01-17-2010 06:56 PM                        The instructions in the lid refers to pulses. Inside the unit, there is a 480Hz tuning fork. The nice thing is that 480 can be evenly divided by 60 and 24. The instructions also refer to a built in inverter. I would imagine that the inverter puts out 60Hz regulated by the standard tuning fork (remember armitron watches?) There is a board inside labeled DIVIDER. I would imagine that this would have to do with syncing the unit. If it is referring to sync pulses in the instructions, then I would imagine that it does not run off of a servo motor or a pilotone from a camera motor, but sync pulses. 1000Hz pulses are a bit of a standard. If so, I wonder how I can figure what level to play into the unit without frying something. The camera tether looks like it CUEs the tape deck too. There are 4 wires coming from the amphenol connector. I plan on using a photo-transistor by the screen, and build a circuit to convert the projector flicker into pulses. My projector records on mag stripe film. So if I can find an outfit to stripe my processed 16mm film, I can record the fullcoat soundtrack to my film, and I will have a projectable 16mm sync sound film. Thanks, Chris  |  IP: Logged Richard B. Perrine Film Handler Posts: 89 From: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio Registered: Apr 2000 posted 01-17-2010 08:15 PM                     Usually, we just put a shaft encoder on the shutter shaft, movement or sprocket shaft ...and let it generate the drive pulses to send to the dubber. Check in with Scott Sound in Burbank....they'll know what it takes to lock the projector. Also I don't think you'll find anyone to stripe your film....not enough of it being done to keep a company going. Sned the mag track out with the picture....make the optical sound neg and a print. RBPerrine  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-17-2010 08:46 PM                     All the amega i worked with were selsyn drive except for one that was pilot tone drive  |  IP: Logged Chris Maness Film Handler Posts: 4 From: Grand Terrace, CA Registered: Jan 2010 posted 01-17-2010 08:50 PM                        @Richard How much does printing from a negative cost (W/ Optical track)? I remember seeing the price and saying to myself, "that is REALLY expensive." I was told there are some DIY machines for striping film, and they still could be found. However, I am open to the idea of optical track. My projector can handle both. @Gordon Since the instructions in the lid refers to pulse sync, would it be the best approach to work under the assumption that it is a pulse synced fullcoat deck? How would I be able to tell if it was selsyn? Did the dubbers or decks you guys used have internal sync capability? This deck does. It is a field recorder with a built in AC inverter. The only date reference was a sticker on the nicad pack that said 1976. However, the cabinet screams 60's design. When did Amega go out of business? Here is a link to photos of the deck: http://tinyurl.com/amega-m3 Check out step #9 in the photos. It says "9. Sync Source Camera-Pulse Turn Sync camera switch to Fwd." Chris  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-18-2010 09:09 PM                     I havent seen that one but the pilot tone worked on a tone generator in the camera being recorded on a seperate head aligned 45 degrees to the travel this also drove the sprocket on playback that tone drove the projector motor to sync the footage to the film  |  IP: Logged Sean Weitzel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall) Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-18-2010 10:18 PM                     Magnetic striping is a very rare process and only a few are doing it anymore. Most of it is geared towards super8mm films. I believe, but am not certain that Paul Yost in San Carlos, CA does 16mm striping at $0.35 a foot. You should definitely contact him before sending in your film. http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/569/poststripeservices.html If that service is no longer available, you will likely have to ship your film to Germany. Andec Film or Wittner may do 16mm striping. You are correct that having an optical track made will be very expensive. If you are starting with a positive, you will likely pay in the neighborhood of $0.40 a foot for the track neg, and whatever the lab charges for an internegative, and an answer print. http://www.cinemalab.com/ was one lab I was able to find that offers track negatives and publishes their prices online. I know http://www.alphacine.com/ was offering all of these services, but I was unable to find prices for track negatives listed in their rate card. It's possible http://www.colorlab.com/ may offer these services as well, but I was not able to find and concrete reference. It's a shame how the world changed. Years ago, labs used to offer a service called "electroprinting" that took away the need to have an optical track made. Basically, you conformed a positive, and sent that with a fullcoat magnetic track to the lab and they made a print on reversal film and printed in the soundtrack at the same time directly onto the print. W.A. Palmer films in Belmont, CA were a notable lab offering this service. Good luck with your project!  |  IP: Logged Chris Maness Film Handler Posts: 4 From: Grand Terrace, CA Registered: Jan 2010 posted 01-19-2010 10:55 AM                        @ Gordon I have mostly figured it out by reverse engineering. I have it down to one wire taking some kind of pulse. The DIVIDER board takes this pulse and converts to 60Hz (probably by multiplication), drives an inverter with it to achieve a 60Hz 120 VAC signal that drives a sync motor (not a selsyn just a motor that turns at a fixed speed for a given input AC frequency). When the unit is in internal sync mode, it derives its clock from a 480Hz tuning fork. The divider board divides the 480Hz by 8 to achieve 60Hz. The tuning fork frequency is spot on accurate. I tried running 24Hz pulses from my audio card to drive the camera sync input. I tried about have of the volume range of my laptop to see if different voltages might trigger it. No Dice (. I am either going to make a schematic from the DIVIDER board, and try to simulate it in software to see what I can get it to do, or build a circuit that I have plans for. This circuit generates 1000Hz pulses with a duration of 20ms @24Hz. I guess this is kind of an industry standard. I am kind of broke after buying a custom battery pack for it, so maybe I will learn SPICE, and put the schematic in, and see what I can get the thing to do. @Sean Thanks for the leads. I will definitely look into it. The prices you quoted are not too bad. I had in mind thousands for a short movie. I can deal with $600 if I am confident about showing my movie to a larger crowd. I wonder how much 35mm blowups would cost for that matter. Thanks for coming back guys, not too many folks have ANY clue about this stuff. Chris Maness  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.