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Author Topic: D-5 Deck audio to cp65 or 650 (surround) Kirk Futrell Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A. Registered: Nov 2008 posted 04-13-2010 10:49 PM                        Anyone ever had the pleasure of hooking up a Panasonic D-5 deck to a CP65 or 650. The tape is encoded for 5.1 (or more, haven't seen it yet) apparently NOT Lt Rt. So I don't think using the analog outs into non-sync will work. Do I need to get some sort of converter box to convert from the digital outs which are aes3id to go into either a DA 20 or CP650. BTW I have no experience with the cp650 but know my way around the CP65 and DA 20. Outside the box ideas welcome too.  |  IP: Logged Phil Ranucci Expert Film Handler Posts: 236 From: Carpinteria,CA, United States Registered: May 2006 posted 04-13-2010 11:04 PM                     We use the Dolby DMA8+ to get D5 into our CP650 using the AES outputs. Does the DA20 have an external 6 channel analog input? Might work, don't know about levels and you'd probably have to make your own cables. If you're renting the D5 see if the rental house has cables already built. Don't forget the AES transformers!  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-13-2010 11:46 PM                       USL makes two devices to do this, the ECI, a multi-input DAC, or a DAX, a single input DAC. Both are pretty reasonably priced.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-14-2010 12:08 AM                     If your CP650 has the ex board it will accept it directly I believe  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-14-2010 06:28 AM                        Is the tape encoded with Dolby E, or does it use six separate tracks for digital? If it's Dolby E, then you need a DMA8+ (or some other box from Dolby). Also, does the deck have an actual AES output, or is it just HD-SDI? In the latter case, you need an HD-SDI to AES disembedder to split out the AES information. I wouldn't be surprised if tracks 1 and 2 contained an Lt/Rt mix that could be fed through non-sync (with decoding enabled) and would produce acceptable results. (I've not dealt with D-5, but am familiar with HDCAM, which has similar issues.)  |  IP: Logged Kirk Futrell Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A. Registered: Nov 2008 posted 04-14-2010 07:40 AM                        Thanks everyone for the options. Phil, How do you hook up the AES to the back of the DMA8+? The D-5 deck has four different AES outs with 2 channels each, but the DMA8+ has only 2 AES inputs and I assume they are separate inputs, can the inputs be paired to play at the same time. On the spec sheet it says the DMA8+ has a DB25 input with 4 channels, but that is a different impedance. Also, does the DMA8+ allow you to assign channels to outputs? Scott, I haven't seen the tape yet but am told its not Dolby E, (although we do have an interest in playing Dolby E, if the equipment to do it isn't too expensive, or can be rented, which after doing a quick search, it looks like the DMA8+ can be rented). The deck has 4 2channel AES/EBU digital audio outs. It also has HD and SD SDI outs, that I assume, I could use to de-embed. Sorry for all the questions, but in a few days we have that time tested mandate for change a "North American Premiere"  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-14-2010 07:57 AM                        If you have AES outputs on the deck, then you don't need the HD-SDI disembedder. You do need six analog channels' worth of AES to analog conversion (one AES line contains two analog channels). Then you could use the format 10 input on the CP65 (disconnecting the DA20). You could get the AES converters from any place that rents video or recording equipment. That would be the cheap, non-permanent way to do this.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-14-2010 08:09 AM                     Okay...on the D5 you have choices and some are tricky. If you use its analog outputs, you will need to set the "Monitor" outputs to tracks 5 and 6 to pick up all 6 (the D5 only has 4 regular analog outputs)...when doing this, set the monitor outputs to fixed or ensure that you have no gain/reduction in them. You need only need deal with that the D5 will be outputting +4dBu (1.23V) balanced and the CP65/650 is looking for unbalanced -8.2dBu (300mV) If you have a CP650 AND it has a Cat 790/791 (EX capable), then you may use the Option I/O input(output) and make a custom cable to send the 3 AES pairs to the Option I/O (see the CP650 Installation manual for the pin out). The catch is that all of the returns (shields on the coax) tie to the same pin (7). You could save yourself a lot of grief and buy the Odyssey board that turns the Option I/O into 4-BNC inputs (and retains the DB25 for output to the surrounds). Then just run for equal length BNC cables (they need not be fancy) between the D5 and the CP650. You can indeed pick the audio off of the HDSDI line with a de-embedder from the likes of AJA or Black Magic Design...but then you still have an AES audio to deal with and most de-embedders leave you with AES3 (balanced and wanting 110-Ohm cable). I believe the Black Magic Design De-embedder (SDI-> Audio) gives you the option of analog or digital output but it will be Balanced, either way). However, this is probably the long way to getting there. For the CP650, again Odyssey makes a Balanced input module that fits to the 6-channel input that should deal with the balanced to unbalanced issue. You are welcomed to do your own conversion, however. Scott...if a D5 has a 6-channel recording on it...channels 1/2 will have Left/Right, not Lt/Rt. HDCam really only deals with 4-channels well. As such, its custom is to have Lt/Rt on channels 1/2 and special audio on 3/4...which can be Dolby-E or M/E or another language...or whatever. It is a good question, however, to find out if the 5.1 audio is Dolby-E. If so...you will need a DMA8 Plus or DMA8. While the Pro Dolby unit DP572 may be used...it is MUCH more complicated and that unit only deals with specific frame rates without the aid of a more expensive box, the DP579....and when the DP572 is done, you are still left with only AES audio that you still need to deal with, in some manner as listed above. If you use a DMA8 or DMA8 Plus to handle the discrete AES3-id audio from the D5, you will need to convert it to AES3 (convert from unbalanced to balanced) using transformers such as those from Canare and also have suitable cables for both AES3 and AES3-id. I don't recall if the USL ECI-60 handles both unbalanced and balanced digital audio but I'm pretty sure the DAX-602 does and they output unbalanced analog at the right levels. And once you get it all hooked up...you may STILL not be done. If the tape was NOT mixed for cinema, then the surrounds will likely need to be boosted 3dB on each side and the subwoofer MAY need to be cut back 10dB due to the particulars of Cinema audio versus Broadcast and Consumer. Fun, isn't it? Steve  |  IP: Logged Kirk Futrell Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Nashville, TN / U.S.A. Registered: Nov 2008 posted 04-14-2010 06:51 PM                        Steve, thanks for that thorough post. I have a rca to db25 breakout cable I use to send discrete analog outputs to the DA20. Would I be able to simply use a passive xlr to rca turnaround and hook into it that way, using the first method you describe, or will the balanced voltage be way too hot? If so can't I simply turn down the output levels from the deck? Would it likely damage the DA 20 if I try it out? Or do I need some sort of transformer? They should rename "film" festivals to "video" festivals...  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-15-2010 05:59 AM                     Two things...the levels will be too hot AND they are balanced...ou won't damage the DA20 as it uses relays for "bypass". However, without modifying it, the DA20 won't pass the subwoofer channel AND you MUST have the Cat611A for the mods to work. I believe the mods are posted in the Manuals section here on Film-Tech...if not...there is a thread here that does discuss it. Steve  |  IP: Logged

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