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Topic: SRD vs DTS error rates

Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 07-02-2010 02:58 AM

I have an SRD auditorium with a bad analog reader. We are heasitant to purchase a replacement because we are expecting one of our other SRD auditoriums to be converted to a digital projector within weeks and we'll swap the part then.

However, I have been getting some minor complaints about sound glitches in the auditorium with the bad analog reader.

My question is whether DTS is a more reliable format than SRD. Would it be worthwhile to take the analog reader from the DTS house and put it in the house with the bad one? Or would I basically be moving the problem from one auditorium to another.

For what it's worth, we do run the most current DTS trailer disk in the DTS house.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 07-02-2010 04:20 AM

quote: Justin Hamaker
My question is whether DTS is a more reliable format than SRD. Would it be worthwhile to take the analog reader from the DTS house and put it in the house with the bad one?

I would, and you're not moving the problem, but eliminating the problem with the analog reader swapout.

Do you have access to fully align the analog reader after it gets fully exchanged?

DTS is more reliable than SR-D for of the simple requirements of a timecode on the film and drive trays that work well to read the discs. Plus, if the SR-D track gets any scratches on it, the error rate will rise, or even head to "F" for fail.

But both work extremely well, so no one can really do a fair comparison since they operate in different ways to create the same analog sound results.

Good luck - Monte

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 07-02-2010 04:13 PM

I'm confused; anything broken is inherently worse than anything fixed. Louis

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Marin Zorica
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia
Registered: May 2003

posted 07-02-2010 06:41 PM

quote: Louis Bornwasser
I'm confused; anything broken is inherently worse than anything fixed. Louis

Yea, but when some idea like from topic get's in manager head....then word broken don't excist!

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 07-02-2010 11:12 PM

quote: Louis Bornwasser
I'm confused; anything broken is inherently worse than anything fixed. Louis

It's just an issue of which digital format is more likely to have drop outs, SRD or DTS. (so which auditorium should get the good analog reader).

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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-03-2010 01:03 AM

Whats wrong with the analog reader?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-03-2010 02:26 PM

And I'll say that I bet it's just a bad LED with some dead segments and thats a 20 minute job to properly change out and re-calibrate tone level. Even if it's the pickup it can be swapped out and aligned in less than an hour. There's no reason to be putting on bad presentations over such an important weekend. Makes me wonder if you should bother to go digital at all. Digital equipment has to have normal maintainance at the proper intervals or you'll really be sorry!

Mark

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 07-03-2010 05:26 PM

Mark could be right.. are you sure the reader is bad, and not the LED's? What are the symptoms of the bad analog sound (i.e. what does it sound like?) What brand of reader?

Finally, Mark made the most important point..if your owner thinks that digital is gonna be the cure-all and need no maintenance he is in for a very nasty surprise. If this problem is typical of his attitude you guys better stick with film.

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Marin Zorica
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 671
From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia
Registered: May 2003

posted 07-05-2010 05:36 PM

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
Finally, Mark made the most important point..if your owner thinks that digital is gonna be the cure-all and need no maintenance he is in for a very nasty surprise. If this problem is typical of his attitude you guys better stick with film.

This remembers me to one thing I used to hear, when you out to service some cinema with aged projectionist, and when you talking why proper grounding, wiring etc is so important, they say....it was better when we used tube amps and photocell's [Big Grin]

The more sophisticated equipment, the more complex service and support is, if $100 LED makes problem to replace.....what about rest?

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 07-06-2010 04:26 AM

It's frustration how so many on this site like to jump to the conclusion that an owner is cheap or uncaring if they try to find an inexpensive work around to a problem.

This post was not intended to imply the owner of my theatre won't replace the reader. The post was intended to find out if there is a viable alternative before purchasing new parts for a projector that may be retired within weeks.

Complete answers to the question are far more helpful than criticism about how the owner shouldn't be so cheap.

And by the way, that $100 part turns into a much more expensive service call when you include the mileage and time for a tech to come out an do the repair.

For what it's worth, some of the answers did give me enough information to know that even if swapping the part would work, I don't have the tools or training to do the actual work required.

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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-06-2010 08:09 AM

quote: Justin Hamaker
It's frustration how so many on this site like to jump to the conclusion

No, it's frustrating when someone fucking replies to you and asks a question about the problem you have and you don't answer it. Glad you got your analog reader fixed and criticized all the help

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 07-06-2010 01:27 PM

I second what Richard said. [thumbsup]

Justin, if you come on here asking for advice, then are asked follow-up questions, don't answer said questions it leaves the impression that the owner indeed doesn't care about solving the problem.

And the vast majority of owners ARE cheap bastards who don't give a shit about quality presentations or maintaining a booth staff who cares, so your questions on practicality of swapping a reader rather than fixing the problem leaves a bad impression of your owner.

quote: Justin Hamaker
And by the way, that $100 part turns into a much more expensive service call when you include the mileage and time for a tech to come out an do the repair.

And by the way, a theatre that can't shell out anything less than a grand to fix a simple problem which has a direct effect on the quality of their presentations shouldn't be in business in the first place.

The repair of that reader at my STANDARD, non-discount rate would cost around $300 max if I were in your area. Ask your owner how much money in petty cash he wastes on other shit which has no impact on quality of presentation.

I get really pissed off by the attitude that a theatre would rather spends THOUSANDS of dollars on stupid shit like lobby decor than making sure their presentations are the best they can be. [Mad]

Proper maintenance of a complex of film projectors is such a miniscule percentage of a theatre's annual expenditures that this argument is laughable. I ran a four-plex and the percentage for full upkeep of the machines was less than 1/2 of ONE percent!!

Like I said if you guys are thinking digital is gonna solve your problems you are in for a big, expensive surprise.

I would hate to hear you come on this site in a year telling how you lost your job or your theatre went belly-up, because your owner was short-sighted as so many are.

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Justin Hamaker
Film God

Posts: 2253
From: Lakeport, CA USA
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 07-06-2010 09:08 PM

We are not thinking Digital will solve all our our problems. And we are not talking for granted that digital equipment will require additional maintenance. In fact, I will be attending a two day training class to learn how to deal with many of the issue that will come up with the digital equipment.

As for the follow-ups: I posted this question on Friday and I had an extremely busy weekend - as I'm sure many in the business did. I was not really able to spend any time investigating the problem further.

What I know about the problem is there is absolutely nothing on the SR channel. I do not have any training or equipment to go much beyond that in testing or trouble shooting.

The problem was first noted during a a call for routine service by a technician a few weeks ago. At that point it was determined that it may not be a major issue unless we received a print with a bad SR-D track, which could then be swapped into another auditorium. It was only in the past week or so that I started receiving some comments - not really complaints - about intermittent sound drop outs for a few seconds. During this time I have had 4-5 different movies play in that auditorium.

Again, because we are expecting to have a projector replaced by a digital projector within weeks, I thought it was at least worth asking if swapping the analog reader from the DTS house was a viable stop-gap measure. The working unit from the retired projector would then be swapped back to the DTS house.

The whole point was about finding a viable short term solution until a permanent fix could be arranged.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 07-07-2010 04:34 PM

quote: Justin Hamaker
As for the follow-ups: I posted this question on Friday and I had an extremely busy weekend - as I'm sure many in the business did. I was not really able to spend any time investigating the problem further.

What I know about the problem is there is absolutely nothing on the SR channel.

Being busy explains a few things, for that is understood we can't all sit be the computer 24/7.

What I highlited would have been a good thing to include in one of your posts. That and the brand of reader.

quote: Justin Hamaker
The problem was first noted during a a call for routine service by a technician a few weeks ago. At that point it was determined that it may not be a major issue unless we received a print with a bad SR-D track, which could then be swapped into another auditorium.

Ok, now that is exactly a sign of the attitude I am referring to. If the problem was found a few weeks ago, why wasn't it fixed then? Or why wasn't the reader swap done then? And who was the genius who determined that it wasn't a major issue? C'mon, WTF? What would you have done if that auditorium got a print with NO digital tracks, or one so badly damaged it wouldn't play?

As a tech I could not in good conscience have left without addressing this one way or another, either by fixing the damn thing, providing a loaner reader, or doing the swap then. BTW, fixing it "a few weeks ago" while the tech was there ultimately costs less than a return call.

quote: Justin Hamaker
Again, because we are expecting to have a projector replaced by a digital projector within weeks, I thought it was at least worth asking if swapping the analog reader from the DTS house was a viable stop-gap measure. The working unit from the retired projector would then be swapped back to the DTS house.

No harm in asking about the swap, I think no one here would argue with the idea in principle, but what you've just told us in this last post raises serious concerns for the thought processes of your upper management. And having to swap it back just creates double the work, and in reality double the labor costs. (actually 4 times since you're removing, installing, removing again and installing again.) This makes absolutely no sense no matter how you look at it.

quote: Justin Hamaker
The whole point was about finding a viable short term solution until a permanent fix could be arranged.

Whereas the point should have been fixing it "a few weeks ago" when it was discovered.

Justin, I am NOT raking YOU personally over the coals, but c'mon, from what I've read in the past you are more professional than this whole thing brings to light. If your boss dropped the ball, say so, and learn from it. Hopefully he will before you do find yourself out of a job when your theatre goes belly-up.

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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 07-08-2010 12:08 AM

Justin,
call that tech back and make him fix the problem...on his own time and money. what company is it? I just want to make sure not to use them when I do work in your area,

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