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Author Topic: Best set-up for a Drive-in? Cameron Andrews Film Handler Posts: 29 From: Rexburg, ID 83440 Registered: Apr 2009 posted 07-18-2010 10:32 AM                     I was just hoping to get some input on how to set-up my drive-in. I opened it last year on the cheap (The less you gamble the less you loose) but I have had several weekends nights this season with 500+ customers (last Friday we broke 750). I think its time to start looking at upgrading. Here is what I've got now CFS Stuper-platter ORC 4500 Console with 4200W Lamp Schneider Lenses Super Simplex projector Head w/ RCA sound head Kelmar optical reader Ramsey FM100B Transmitter Smart MOD Eight (which has serious issues) The screen is 84x42 and desperately needs a paint job. I would love to hear everyones opinions on what type of paint to use! I am fighting some ambient light from a storage facility next to me. The platter is already being replaced with a strong Alpha (left-overs from a digital conversion at my indoor) Any advice on how to improve the image and sound would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-18-2010 12:06 PM                        We install 1-2 new drive ins per year. Keep your Schneider lens and the Kelmar LED. I assume thst the transmitter covers well and is either legal or that you have an alternative method of control. (Don't mount the antennas up high; mount them low. You only need to cover the drive in, not the county.) The platter you are getting is my first choice anyway. I would get a rebuilt X60 or Super 80 and a Century SA with a soundhead. If properly modified, nothing will give you more light. (Talk with the UDITOA owners; I know I have.) You will need 4500 watts with water cooling. IF your existing lenses are current models, keep them. The guy with the light interference; ask him nicely one time. After that, he will need to be served legal papers. The drive in was here first and needs to be protected. All his cost, not yours. Oh, yes, and paint the screen. Louis  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-18-2010 12:22 PM                     A Christie SLC lamphouse will put out more light than anything Strong running the same bulb wattage. With an 80+ screen, there is no reason to burn any bulb other than a 6K too. Bear in mind Christie and Kinoton projectors use a single shutter will put out more light too. (Although a Century is a very good machine.) That SMART processor needs to go! There are lots of used Dolby processors on the market. Keep your Schneider lens and see what others say about screen paint and transmitter.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-18-2010 12:36 PM                     The owner who used to own that drive-in many moons ago (Teton Vu .. where I started 40yrs ago) would paint that screen every other year since that day time sun would beat on it directly (screen faces east) with high reflective street paint, or a special drive-in screen paint since we had Motiographs with Ashcrafts with 10mm carbons (should have been 11's with Kollmorgens for flat and prime with BL II's for scope since it was a 380 ft throw on that 82ft wide screen-originally square since it was built in 1950 and panels added for scope in 1954. When the flood hit the area in 1976 the building was completely submerged, thus the BOR bought the owner new equipment where he put in SWORDS with PRO35's sitting on them and a NEUMADE table to handle the big reels) to illuminate it on those summer nights. Glad to see that the place can still bring them in even with a 6plex family event center just up the street. One of the few drive-in's still operatable in that part of the state. Even a USL JS-200 can be used since that's all gonna be used for the snak bar speakers since you got the Ramsey. Good luck - Monte  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 07-18-2010 02:45 PM                        Wow: Ballantyne & Motiograph in a drive in???? Well Supers aren't much better. Does someone just HATE drive ins??? (I understand budget for only one year.) I'm talking about LIGHT. In a drive in, all other factors fade away if you can't see the picture or have to wait until 11 pm to start. You will want 1. something still made (Strong) 2. Something a normal person can deal with (not over 4500 watt) and 3. something available used. Oh, yes, a regular SA is pretty good, but with work you can get a lot more light from them and no ghosting, even with a drive in blade. They don't come that way, though. Call me. As far as sound goes, even thought I am not a big Smart fan, they did make a really good, reliable unit called the Mod2-dit, which we stock and repair. This is the basis. Add a small compressor/limiter such as the Ashly CL-52E and a suitable transmitter, which you may already have. Costs do add up, but it is possible to get really excellent sound off of analog. We have stayed away from Digital in driveins because of simplicity issues. Most comments are that the drive in has better sound than the indoor. Louis  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-18-2010 03:53 PM                     quote: Louis Bornwasser Most comments are that the drive in has better sound than the indoor.... (lol) - mainly due to the money spent on aftermarket automotive sound equipment which has more speakers per sq/in installed in a small area than any indoor cinema can even think of.. I put some picts of the drive-in (Teton-Vu Dr-in) in the "Picture/Drive-In" tab when I was there for one to gander at.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-18-2010 04:49 PM                     quote: Louis Bornwasser You will want 1. something still made (Strong) 2. Something a normal person can deal with (not over 4500 watt) and 3. something available used. We will have to agree to disagree. I know you are a major Strong dealer, but I find their products quite lacking in quality. It is no secret that if someone wants to buy a Strong-built projector, they pretty much have to send it to someone qualified like Hadden to rebuild it...even if it is brand new. That is sad and shows the level of quality being produced at Strong. Are you talking about notching the shutter blades, or just slimming them down? Slimming them causes ghosting (which is usually not noticeable in a drive-in), but could also be done on any other projector. Notching creates a hot spot, which could also be done on any other projector. What is this special process you speak of that is unique to the Century SA? The Christie SLC consoles can't be beat for light, and that is crucial to him. They are also easily repaired in the odd instance they actually fail. Furthermore, there is no real difference between a 4.5K lamp and a 6K lamp as far as an operator or bulb installer is concerned, but the 6K will buy you that extra light a drive-in needs. I am pulling a lot of like-new condition SLCs here before the year is out, all capable and have been running 6K lamps in them. So yes at least a batch of them will be available on the used market through me and probably from a chunk of other people as well that are converting theaters to digital.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 07-18-2010 08:35 PM                     I've even heard of some wild stories that some Centurys didn't even have shutters in them at all when shooting on a drive-in screen... True though, Cameron would definitely benefit having an SLC console out there with a Christie P35 attached to it - prob put the best plcture in town if that happened out there along with the best picture that drive-in have ever seen prior to the Ashcrafts we had... Only thing I'm concered about since those consoles have that cooling fan below the rectifier and the building is ground level, a gravel yard, with the outside entrance door right there, would there be a problem with large dust accumulation inside the console? At one time, there was a AW3 out there a few years back with that SuperSimplex/Xenex-II setup (dang, that old Super would get plenty hot having a 4k bulb shining through it..), but noticed that he now has a CFS platter out there.  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 07-19-2010 04:41 AM                     I have to agree with Louis on this. The Century/X-60 rejig combo is so cost effective and reliable in this situation. I am guessing that Cameron, even though he wishes to upgrade, will still find it necessary to count his pennies. To this end, the Century/X-60 is a no-brainer. The RCA will also fit the bill on top of the Century, though I would probably go for a Century DAW. Wouldn't touch a Christie P35 in a fit. High maintenance, pissy shutter and lousy QC. Why? Century parts are very freely available and not exceedingly overpriced and the Century's wont shit themselves in a dusty drive-in environment. The DAW's have contra shutters with undercuts for more light as well. Same goes for the RCA - cheap, bomb-proof and as mentioned before there's no need to go digi audio. Actually, some patrons LIKE to hear scratches and splices on the soundtrack- it adds to the atmosphere that they can't get anywhere else. Im no fan of platters in drive-ins. The print picks up way too much dirt and crap so if Cameron wants to replace the platter, go for an Eprad mut. Again, bomb-proof, much less chance of a chucked print and dirt cheap in the current financial climate. If the processor is working and sounds good, then stick with it til it blows then go USL. Lenses- stick with the Schneiders. ...but the GREATEST improvement for picture brightness is, as Louis says, is to paint the screen. The SMPTE Theatre Projection Manual mentions painting drive-in screens with a bright aluminium base coat then over covering with a thin, white "diffuser". It will look splotchy during the daylight hours, but with a picture on it, it looks great.This is reported to work very well, so good that a reduction in power draw can be implemented... or use a lower wattage bulb for the same screen reflective brightness. This narrower reflection angle will also help with the ambient light problem at the cost of a falloff in brightness on the outer ramps. You are to be congratulated on embarking on this venture, Cameron. We wish you the very best of luck and let us know how you go and what you decide.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-19-2010 06:57 AM                        Tim Reed is the drive-in expert. Hopefully he will be along shortly with his recommendations. Jack Ondracek, another forum member, has a drive-in with an amazing FM sound system. He has described it elsewhere here (I did a cursory search, but couldn't find the description and pictures). Perhaps someone can dig up that thread. Also, what is with drive-ins with 2:1 screens? I have seen this elsewhere as well. Why aren't they 2.35:1 or 2.39:1?  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-19-2010 07:07 AM                     Yeah, I really hate that.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-19-2010 07:50 AM                     Maybe because building materials like plywood, etc. come in 4x8 sheets? (i.e. 2:1 A.R.)  |  IP: Logged Ian Parfrey Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1049 From: Imbil Australia 26 deg 27' 42.66" S 152 deg 42' 23.40" E Registered: Feb 2009 posted 07-19-2010 07:58 AM                     2:1 ratio = narrower aperture = smaller light spot= increased light output for aperture size. Also, by having a 2:1 ratio as opposed to 2:35 means the same light spread over a smaller screen width - again equating to a brighter picture. At these screen sizes, every bit helps.  |  IP: Logged Richard Hamilton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1341 From: Evansville, Indiana Registered: Jan 2000 posted 07-19-2010 09:47 AM                     quote: Brad Miller I find their products quite lacking in quality. It is no secret that if someone wants to buy a Strong-built projector, they pretty much have to send it to someone qualified like Hadden to rebuild it...even if it is brand new. That is sad and shows the level of quality being produced at Strong. Hehe When Megasystems was around, (Strong built) we would strip them down and rebuild them in Florida and run them for a few days before shipping them out and installing them. If I was out of the country, I didn't want any surprises. During my brief time at Strong, I had to spend a few days with the guys assembling the machines, Apogees, Centuries, etc. One guy was showing me something on a simplex and trying to explain it, I just said "Dude, you have no idea how many of these I have had to rebuild"  |  IP: Logged Barry Floyd Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1079 From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 07-19-2010 10:23 AM                        I've had my drive-in for 7 years now. For Screen paint: Sherwin Williams A100 Flat Latex Wall paint. True story: When we put in our first screen - we had a Selby 25x60 built. When they were finished they left me a 5 gallon bucket of "Selby OFFICIAL DRIVE-IN MOVIE SCREEN PAINT" to use for touch-ups if needed. During our rush to get the theatre open, I just left the bucket sitting outside behind the concession stand. After a couple of months in the sun and rain, the Selby label peeled off the bucket to reveal the original Sherwin Williams A100 label. As far as sound goes.. I've got the Smart MODII DIT processor that Louis described on my first screen, and nothing but a rack mount DJ mixer on screen 2. There IS a noticeable difference in sound. I have found pro's and con's of both set-ups. The pro's for the Smart box is that the mix for the film sound is very good and it doesn't run through any other sound processors before it goes to the transmitter. The con... I can't "talk-over" the film audio during the credits (having both film sound and microphone going out at the same time). I know if I ran the outputs of the Smart through the mixer I could, but that kind of defeats the purpose of the Smart box. Transmitters: I have a Broadcast Warehouse TX-5 transmitter on each screen, running to an interior wall-mounted J-Pole antenna. Couldn't ask for a better radio transmitter. I had a Ramsey FM25B on screen 2 when we started out, and ditched it within 3 weeks due to the complaints on the sound. I've got the transmitter's power level dialed all the way down as low as it will go and still have a great signal on the fields. I've got Strong AP3 platters in each of my booths, and besides the occasional micro switch - we've never had a problem. Ambient light: Just remember - you can't fight light with light. You can increase your bulb size and make the white's whiter - but nothing will make the blacks blacker until you get rid of or shield the ambient light. I have the same issue at my place with the warehouses across the street. They have these huge 500 watt quartz halogen wall-pack lights that light my screen orange! In my case - they were here first not me. I've offered to pay to have shields put on their lights, offered to pay to put their lights on a timer circuit, and even offered to swap out their fixtures for another type of light fixture that wouldn't produce the glare. They just basically tell me to off.  |  IP: Logged

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