my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » future discrete 7.1 surround sound films (Page 1)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: future discrete 7.1 surround sound films Jonathan Goeldner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1360 From: Washington, District of Columbia Registered: Jun 2008 posted 10-13-2010 10:38 PM                     finding any new news regarding the actual release of films in the new sound format is like looking for a needle in a haystack... well... surprise! In addition, the following six films with Dolby Surround Sound 7.1 will be released soon: ◦Disney’s Tangled, November 24, 2010 ◦Disney’s TRON: Legacy, December 17, 2010 ◦DreamWorks Animation’s Megamind, November 5, 2010 ◦Touchstone Pictures’s Gnomeo and Juliet, February 11, 2011 ◦Twentieth Century Fox’s The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, December 10, 2010 ◦Twentieth Century Fox’s Gulliver’s Travels, December 22, 2010 Dolby Surround 7.1 is being used in movies all over the world. Last month’s premiere of Legend of the Fist: The Return of Chen Zhen signified the first Chinese film to be released in Dolby Surround 7.1. This month, Los Ojos De Julia (Julia’s Eyes) will be released at the Sitges Film Festival in Spain making it the first European film to use the format. ~~~~ It's great to see studio support not just from Disney - the addition of Fox and Dreamworks will help the format considerably.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 10-14-2010 01:37 AM                        So, like 3D, it is mostly for kiddie-fare, then?  |  IP: Logged Kris Verhanneman Expert Film Handler Posts: 182 From: Belgium Registered: Dec 2009 posted 10-14-2010 04:47 AM                     I'll keep this list and check the DCP when these films arrive. But I do hope that it's better then the EX experiance.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-14-2010 07:26 AM                     Oh boy... those are seon really exciting big titles you have posted there . I see it as a replacement for the now dead Dolby EX format. This one will also be dead in just a few years time. I'll bet money on that. What this industry needs is the LC and RC speakers back up front where the difference will be noticed by the general public! Mark  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-14-2010 08:01 AM                     I dissagree with Mark. The lc and rc channels really make a difference in an auditorium with screen wider than 12 meters. Otherwise the directivity is so close that you can barely tell the difference. Ex died because of lack of studio support. Now the issue is that the format currently is only for Dcinema. The only film sound system that could handle so many discrete channels seems for the time being to be DTS with the XD10 or the XD20 unit due to additional channel support. I doubt DD can squeeze additionaly 2 discrete channels. I do hope they manage though to push the format on film systems soon if studios support the format. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-14-2010 10:27 AM                     While it would be nice to bring back the right extra and left extra stage channels for that classic Todd-AO "5 up front" scheme, it's something that would only be effective in commercial theaters with large screens. Additionally, 5 stage channels is something home theater systems cannot support. That might be good in one respect. However, with as little time Hollywood studios are allowing movies to play in commercial theaters the setup would be a waste. I've been pretty annoyed with Universal Studios regarding the DTS XD-10 and XD-20. The studio had opportunities to promote better sound formats for film but never bothered. The XD-10 and XD-20 processors can do a lot more than just play the old DTS 5.1 theatrical format. They can play high bit rate lossless audio and more discrete channels of it. Unfortunately, the movie studio has to provide the "software." The vast majority of SDDS installations were wired only for 5.1 output. Not very many movies were mixed and distributed with SDDS 7.1 audio tracks. Not many movies are being mixed in 7.1 with four discrete surround channels either. However, the four channel surround array is something that can and should be used in most commercial movie theaters. Since Blu-ray can support the same 7.1 quad surround format studios that do bother to release movies theatrically in 7.1 can use the same audio design later on video release.  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-14-2010 11:47 AM                     The additional cost of the extra amplifier/s needed for the discrete surround is silly for a new cinema NOT to make at least the provision. I do hope they push the format at film as well as Digital. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-14-2010 12:27 PM                     Oh stop...5-screen channels can benefit just about ANY size screen...those that claim no either haven't done it on a smallish screen (20-foot or less) or have used dreadful equipment with piss-poor EQ. Stop spouting your ignorance. 5-screen channels, in my opinion, is more beneficial than the 4 surround channels, but that, is only my opinion. Channels 7/8 are supposed to be there for them in DCinema...it is one of the reasons that 7.1 used channels 11/12 (I forget what 9/10 are targeted for). There were more 8-channel SDDS theatres than you would imagine...and considering it was a "premium" format, it had a high percentage. As to the number of features with 8-channels...again, more than you would imagine. http://www.sdds.com/news_movies.cfm?showfilms=8 You compare the list to EX or even 70mm and it is a decent size. As for surround 7.1...it ports easily to the home market so it is likely to get some traction. It is too easy to design into new builds and it gives existing EX theatres and easy upgrade path. There is nothing proprietary to 7.1 so any processor can play it...though one should ensure that they can switch between 7.1 and 5.1...again, not rocket science in the DCinema world. I would NOT look for it to EVER come to film except in a Datasat form...there is seemingly ZERO interest in furthering film anything in the industry (except by those that depend on actual film for a living). Steve  |  IP: Logged Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-14-2010 12:46 PM                     Yes Steve but almost all titles are Columbia. I wonder why. Still no feature since 2007. If the industry is wise, they must and should innovate film. Demetris  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-14-2010 08:49 PM                     research has shown that we are better at differentiating small directional changes in sound coming from in front of us, and not very good at detecting differences coming from behind or above. hence, if it comes down to an either/or proposition, movies stand to benefit from more screen channels versus more surround channels. but, isn't it a done-deal now? don't these channels "belong" to rear surround left/right? even so, there are other channels still up for grabs. hopefully we will see le/re before long. i recall sony's marketing packet for sdds-8 claimed that the extra channels reduced "competition" among sound elements for a channel -- for example, music could be routed to le/re whereas effects could be routed to l/r -- this has stuck with me as something to get more information on -- emotionally, i can buy into it but, since it came out of a marketing packet, i have to question it until some proof emerges. any thoughts???  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 10-15-2010 09:31 AM                        Wouldn't the benefits of additional screen channels only be evident if the movies are mixed to take advantage of them, such as using directional dialogue? If a sound effect is panned across three channels or five, I don't see that having a big impact, but if the additional screen channels can give us voices that come from more than just the center of the screen, that may actually be a benefit that most people can appreciate. It would also be a feature that theaters would have that homes will likely never have, but mixing those left-center and right-center channels for the home shouldn't be any trouble. That said, however, I don't think that the extra surround channels are a waste. Maybe some theaters just aren't up to the task of implementing it correctly, but the ability to direct sounds to those rear channels gives the sound designers much more to work with. We've seen consistent releases in EX/ES from Disney/Pixar and some support from the other studios, but why should they bother if they feel like theaters don't care enough to support it? What ends up happening is that the Blu-ray release gets better sound than theaters do, since not only do Blu-ray customers have the extra surround channels, but they also get lossless sound. Whether or not someone can actually hear the difference can be debated until the cows come home, but even if they can't, the marketing advantage is clearly on the side of the home video release and not the theatrical release. To go back to the restaurant comparison, good restaurants spend lots of money to hire good chefs, good staff, nice decor, and other things to make the experience of eating out better than eating at home. If I want mac and cheese, I can stay home, and many theaters are providing their customers with mac and cheese when they should be providing filet mignon. As of last night's update, we have showtimes for 4,796 theaters. Want to guess how many of them are advertising EX, ES, or 7.1 sound in any showtime for all the dates for which showtimes are present? 7 (Seven). Yep, 0.15% of theaters in the United States are advertising the use of extended surround to the public. That's actually more than I expected to see, and it makes me wonder if some/all of those are advertising EX when they are showing a movie that hasn't been encoded with the extra channels. A better test will be when Megamind opens, as well as the others that are listed in the previous message. What is the real additional cost of adding support for EX/ES/7.1? The speakers are already there, the wiring should be home-run already (if it's not, fire the wiring guys), so you're just looking at a couple of amps (and in the case of film, an XD10 processor)? Let's break it down by the numbers!  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-15-2010 10:01 AM                     Commercial movie theaters are already delivering lossless or uncompressed surround sound, at least in terms of the ones equipped with digital projection systems. Unfortunately hardly anyone has been marketing this fact. The old lossy compressed formats for film (DTS, Dolby Digital, SDDS) get a place in the movie's end credits. But there's no mention in the credits along the lines of "uncompressed surround sound in d-cinema equipped locations." Dolby Surround 7.1 is really the first attempt to apply any branding to d-cinema audio, although adding the Dolby brand or any other company brand for that matter doesn't make much sense since the audio is "vanilla" linear PCM. The one area where Blu-ray can be better than D-cinema audio is in delivering high resolution audio. Some concert Blu-ray discs feature 24-bit 96kHz multichannel audio. The Baraka Blu-ray has 24/96 audio. Blu-ray can also support 24-bit 192kHz stereo. I'm not a Neil Young fan, but he has a Blu-ray audio only box set boasting 24-bit 192kHz audio. AFAIK, commercial movies aren't being delivered to theaters with 24-bit 96kHz audio; it's usually 48kHz in either 20-bit or 24-bit depth. The audio track is only part of the deal. Just as many home theater setups are actually pretty crappy, a great deal of commercial theater sound systems leave a lot to be desired. Stadium seated auditorium designs do a lot to screw up surround sound quality. Imaging of the back wall just isn't there in many places unless you're sitting in one of the tallest rows farthest from the screen. And then the rear surround speakers are practically over your head. At that vantage point there's little discernible separation in the stage channels.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-15-2010 05:55 PM                     panned dialogue was introduced in the 70mm era and abandoned - i doubt they'd attempt to revive that idea  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 10-15-2010 06:33 PM                       I believe Avatar used quite a bit of panned dialog, at least in the IMAX version.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-15-2010 06:37 PM                     didn't notice it - not sure it helped  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.