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Author Topic: Is THX still relevant?
Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 10-28-2010 01:04 AM      Profile for Tom Petrov     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its been on my mind for a while now. With AMC ETC, Cineplex Ultra AVX, digital this, 3D that, is THX still relevant?

In my area, I have not seen a theatre advertise THX for years now. Its seems it does not really matter.

On the home video side, I love THX mastered LDs, DvDs and Blu-rays. It just seems that there aren't many DvD and very, very blu rays that get the THX treatment.

For the record, I love THX, so this is not a bash on it. .

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-28-2010 01:21 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is another of those topics, if you do a search you'll find tons of writing about it.

The bottom line is that it costs so much to license THX that a lot of chains can't justify the cost; and, their standards (for some chains, apparently) have been relaxed enough to render it less meaningful than in the past.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-28-2010 08:30 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In a sense, THX is still relevant. It is a standard of excellence that cinemas should strive to attain, whether or not they actually intend to license the THX name.

Yes, it's expensive, but pursuing certification ensures that corners don't get cut. I've been involved with projects that start out with the best intentions and end up being merely average because a corner gets cut here and another gets cut there. And corner-cutting or "value engineering" happens because (a) it makes the installation cheaper and (b) without real THX certification on the line, there's nothing tangible at stake. It's a slippery slope and all those little cuts add up. In my opinion, the real value of THX is that the threat of flunking the certification/testing phase keeps everyone honest.

The problem I have with something like AVX is that it's basically the theatres THEMSELVES declaring their own excellence. I'm a little skeptical of this because I believe in that old adage that says "self praise is no recommendation." Or, if you prefer, "the fox is guarding the henhouse."

And, I can't help but notice that AVX is another 3 letter acronym ending in "X" -- it strongly suggest that THX is still relevant. There's another old saying: "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Poor THX. A misunderstood child.

THX was introduced at a time when there was a real problem to solve. Movie theatres weren't capable of accurately reproducing film soundtracks. Arguably, managers and installers weren't fully aware of everything that could be done to maximize the quality of the sound in their cinemas -- or maybe they just didn't care about sound quality. Upon its introduction in 1983, THX made a *noticeable* difference in how movies sounded.

This translated into a box office trend that proved THX theatres earned more money than non-THX competition (same movies and/or same catchment areas).

But, while the average moviegoer could hear a difference, few people truly understood what the heck THX actually was. For example, there was a widespread (mis)understanding that it meant "loud" or that it had something to do with the surrounds. This was parodied on The Simpsons and, subsequently, "spun" into an actual THX logo trailer. The trailers were such a powerful marketing tool that consumers confused the actual soundtrack to be THX (as opposed to the venue).

And so, in 1993, when "digital" became the new buzzword, THX (already 10 years old) got lost in the alphabet soup, suddenly dominated by SRD, DTS and SDDS. And, like THX, digital sound made a *noticeable* difference in sound quality -- and it didn't seem to matter anymore if a theatre was THX or not. If it was digital, it was great. It wasn't widely understood that THX could make any of these formats sound their best. To the average listener, there wasn't a *noticeable* difference between digital sound with or without THX. Box office receipts supported this. And cinema operators exploited the confusion.

THX cinemas stopped getting re-certified, opting instead to simply promote the fact that they had "gone digital" (and eliminate the annual expense of the per-screen marketing license from THX).

THX gets "pimped out."

One of the problems I have with THX is that they've diluted their message in the interest of becoming too commercial:

THX quality on VHS tapes? Really?
THX computer speakers? Really?
THX car stereos? Wow! I'll bet it sounds just like being at the movies.
THX home theatre? OK, it's *technically* possible, but not likely.

And, IIRC, they make allowances (read: lower the standard?) for historic buildings that can't be architecturally modified to meet the spec. Somebody correct me if I'm mistaken on this point.

"Bitch better have my money!"
--Pimp of the Year, from I'M GONNA GET YOU SUCKA!


quote: Mike Blakesley
their standards (for some chains, apparently) have been relaxed enough to render it less meaningful than in the past.
The term "courtesy certification" comes to mind...

Oh, and good luck trying to get THX training for cinema applications -- they only offer home theatre training now.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 10-28-2010 09:26 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Manny Knowles
And, IIRC, they make allowances (read: lower the standard?) for historic buildings that can't be architecturally modified to meet the spec. Somebody correct me if I'm mistaken on this point.
When Act III Theaters renovated the McDonald Theater back in the mid-90s, they claimed to be striving for THX certification but couldn't quite get there due to issues with the balcony. They also renovated Cinema World 8 around the same time with all 8 getting THX certification. Apparently in this case the historic nature of the McDonald didn't help it get THX approval even though that was their goal.

I guess if you think of THX as meaning "The best that this specific product technology can deliver" then it might be relevant but that's a pretty nebulous standard of quality when applied to things like computer speakers.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-28-2010 10:00 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: David Stambaugh
I guess if you think of THX as meaning "The best that this specific product technology can deliver" then it might be relevant but that's a pretty nebulous standard of quality when applied to things like computer speakers.
Exactly my point.

But note that I started by saying,

quote: Manny Knowles
In a sense, THX is still relevant.
The CINEMA standard remains an excellent one, and it is actually well-defined.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-28-2010 10:36 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The important work they did
1 A set of criteria that in most cases were really not the onerous if one wanted to do it right
2 A set of testing criteria to ensure that they were met in a uniform fashion
3 A analyzer that met that requirement

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 10-28-2010 10:48 AM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To the point that installers did not understand what was involved in getting "best practices" implemented;

The best installers did understand what was involved but were not able to get cinema owners to focus and agree to make it a priority, All the unsolicited advice in the world would not convince owners to improve the audio just for the sake of a better presentation.

"Free advice" seems to be disdained as in the great line from "Putney Swope", "take a walk, we can get anyone for nothing." {Anyone remember this film?}

Once the specs were codified by Tom Holman and kudos to him for coming up with realistic, no nonsense criteria; there was a movement toward THX, partially because there was a program with teeth and a mystique was quickly developing.

And, behind all of this was the implicit "carrot" to the owner that they stood a better chance to get a booking of a movie from Lucasfilm which was making blockbusters back then.

And that boys and girls, is how sausage is made.

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Martin McCaffery
Film God

Posts: 2481
From: Montgomery, AL
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-28-2010 11:22 AM      Profile for Martin McCaffery   Author's Homepage   Email Martin McCaffery   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"You can't Eat a refrigerator"

Putney Swope was one of the great satires of the sixties from Robert Downy, Sr. I would go and see it almost everytime it returned to the Rep houses when I was in High School.

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 10-28-2010 01:36 PM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a big fan of what THX tried to do, and barring the situations that seem to be the case where THX bent their rules and allowed theater chains to certify themselves, I believe in what THX was intended to do and what it can bring to the admission-paying moviegoer. Unfortunately, those missteps diluted the brand to a certain degree.

The fact that THX probably saw the writing on the wall in the theatrical market and expanded to other things doesn't bother me. The intention was a good one, even if the execution didn't always work out. We can laugh at the thought of a THX-certified videotape, but if that meant that all of the steps of the process were monitored for quality, then why not? A THX computer speaker should perform better than a Chinese knockoff sold for $3. I don't have a problem with the brand showing up in multiple places. Look at Dolby for a brand that can be seen just about anywhere...

That said, I think the intent of THX is still relevant. Solid construction, decent equipment, and regular tuning are all very good things. From some of the comments on this site about some theaters being way out of whack sound and picture-wise, it shows that third-party certification should still be done, but for the most part, isn't. When 3D dims the screen, wouldn't it be nice to know that a theater has been checked to make sure that the brightness hasn't gone down so far that the movie is nearly unwatchable?

Anyone that says that the intent of THX doesn't matter either wants to pull a rug over the eyes of the unknowing public or is oblivious to what should be done to provide a quality presentation. In the ideal situation, THX certification meant that the theater had been tested every 6 months and met the requirements of the certification.

No other program, certification or marketing program, does that.

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Jake Spell
Master Film Handler

Posts: 294
From: Johns Island SC
Registered: May 2009


 - posted 10-28-2010 01:52 PM      Profile for Jake Spell   Email Jake Spell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding computer speakers, I bought a 5.1 set for my computer about 5 years ago from Best Buy and chose it (Logitech Z-5.00) because it was THX certified. I was EXTREMELY impressed by it, both is sound quality and clarity. Are these the best speakers ever made? no. Do they sound kick ass on my computer, hell yes. In this case the THX certification holds very true.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-28-2010 02:48 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The fact that the question has come up time and again -- "is THX relevant?" -- points to the fact that something went wrong.

This is a question that would not have come up 15 years ago but, for some reason, it comes up today.

I have done my best to outline what I believe to be the responsible factors. Ultimately, it all boils down to "dilution of the message." That is, average moviegoers don't know what it does and can't tell a difference.

Do you think theatre owners adopted THX because they cared about good sound? No! They did it because they wanted to show RETURN OF THE JEDI and it was a proven fact that THX theatres sold more tickets.

Let's not pull the rug over our eyes -- It was all ultimately all about money. Which, by the way, is how we end up with THX in the home (and in the car). THX makes more money that way.

Bottom line: I think people came to the conclusion (perhaps subconsciously) that THX sold out. And when companies are perceived as selling out, their credibility gets called into question.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-28-2010 02:48 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did not appreciate how THX measured for ambient room noise with the projectors off. When the Mann Bowles Crossing 12 theater opened over 15 years ago, it had THX in each auditorium. The sound was OK (the optical sound was distorted) but what really chapped my ass was that I could hear the projector running during the movie CLEARLY even in the front row. It was like there was no port glass at all. This affected each auditorium. I complained to THX a few times. What happened? They put noise-reducing foam around the inside of the port holes. That helped a little, but the problem still plagued the place until THX was finally canceled a few years later.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-28-2010 02:49 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
so THX was canceled...and then the problem went away?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
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 - posted 10-28-2010 02:52 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem having anything to do with THX went away.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 10-28-2010 04:03 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
as you guys say, I think THX mistake was to become "too soft". I understand their point of view: chain XYZ would like to certify xxx theatres, but they also would like to cut some corners, or they won't go on with the certification. So, instead of losing xxx cinemas, let's ignore some issues here and there. But within the years those corners became more and more and at the end the difference between a THX and a non-THX theatres was not huge anymore.
I reckon if they had kept their strictness in certifying screens, they would have lost some contracts in the short term, but not in the long term.
Haven't seen any more THX theatres lately.

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