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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Ugh, ran across horrible splicing tape

   
Author Topic: Ugh, ran across horrible splicing tape
David E. Nedrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 368
From: Columbus, OH, USA
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 12-11-2010 02:13 AM      Profile for David E. Nedrow   Author's Homepage   Email David E. Nedrow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I inherited a print from another local theatre. To save everyone time, they wound it off the platter onto two 6000' reels -- meaning most of their splices were left in place.

Normally when I do a move over like this, I remove the old splices, manually clean the film for about 8 feet on either side of the splice, then splice anew.

I could NOT get their splicing tape off. It would come off in little pieces. The pieces I did get off almost looked frosted, though it seemed clear when it actually was affixed to the film.

So, I didn't touch the rest of the splices. Two was enough. I don't look forward to breaking this print down.

Has anyone ever run across a brand of splicing tape that shears like this?

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Kenneth Wuepper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1026
From: Saginaw, MI, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-11-2010 07:31 AM      Profile for Kenneth Wuepper   Email Kenneth Wuepper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our print of "Life As We Know It" had this kind of tape and it was the kind with yellow stripes on both edges and dashes across the frame line. "T" stripe tape. A pain to remove but it left no adhesive behind.

3M once made a packaging tape that was very strong along the length of the strip but could easily be torn at the roll. This was advertised as a real convenience since the tape had great strength for holding while you could easily tear it to length without a cutter.

Perhaps the splice tape you have found has this type of grain. If it does not come off when lifting it from the edges of the film it may come off along the length of the film. One must be very careful not to scratch while removing the tape from the emulsion, picture side, of the print.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-11-2010 09:58 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When this happens to me, I often must sacrifice a frame. Usually the cuts are so bad that there would be a gap if I kept them.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-11-2010 12:41 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I vote for clipping the frame, too.

If the operator cuts the film properly and uses good quality splicing tape that peels off without leaving stickum behind it would not be necessary.

While it is not the best thing to have to clip the frame, if YOU splice properly the next operator and all subsequent operators should not have to. It is a short-term sacrifice with long-term benefit.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-11-2010 02:59 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Always peel from the base side of the film first since it doesn't scratch as easily. Once the base side of the splicing tape is off, you are left with essentially a single sided splice which is easier to give the film a slight twist on to remove the tape from the emulsion side.

Once you get the tape off, burn down the offending theater that bought cheap tape. [evil]

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Jim Bedford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 597
From: Telluride, CO, USA (733 mi. WNW of Rockwall, TX but it seems much, much longer)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-15-2010 03:51 PM      Profile for Jim Bedford   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Bedford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You hear that no group of producers sat down in advance and said, "Let's make the worst movie we can," so I assume that no splicing tape manufacturer ever decided to make tape where the adhesive came off the tape and stuck to the film rather than the tape. Decisions are made, corners are cut, quality control and customer service aren't, so you get crummy tape.

When tape doesn't come off or if stickiness remains, that's when the naptha comes out. It dissolve the glue and softens the tape splice.

As a film collector, I have on occasion taken off what seems to be five to 10 old spices from each heads and tails of some older prints, some with two to four (I've seen six) ID frames, each one clipped and taped back on. Upon such activity, sounds of rage usually emanate from my booth. The best (and probably only) thing good about modern prints is that since they don't get repertory screenings, they don't get splices on splices on splices . . . (until they don't run through the projector anymore).

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-15-2010 04:02 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Clipping a frame either side of the splice will certainly look better on the screen than whatever is left after 10 minutes of picking. I've seen a couple examples of frosted tape on prints that come in, it looks similar to Magic Mending Tape but thinner, I don't believe it's splicing tape, just some brand of very thin general purpose tape.

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Chris Slycord
Film God

Posts: 2986
From: 퍼항시, 경상푹도, South Korea
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 12-16-2010 10:26 AM      Profile for Chris Slycord   Email Chris Slycord   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jim Bedford
You hear that no group of producers sat down in advance and said, "Let's make the worst movie we can," so I assume that no splicing tape manufacturer ever decided to make tape where the adhesive came off the tape and stuck to the film rather than the tape. Decisions are made, corners are cut, quality control and customer service aren't, so you get crummy tape.
Of course, they don't say "We're gonna make the worst." But I definitely could see them saying "We're gonna make it cost less" which in the end result isn't all that different from them saying the other...

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David E. Nedrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 368
From: Columbus, OH, USA
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 12-16-2010 01:35 PM      Profile for David E. Nedrow   Author's Homepage   Email David E. Nedrow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Chris S.
Of course, they don't say "We're gonna make the worst." But I definitely could see them saying "We're gonna make it cost less" which in the end result isn't all that different from them saying the other...
You're right, it's not as blatant as that. Every corporation has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders/partners/etc to MAXIMIZE shareholder value. Basically, the mantra is, "what is the least amount of quality we can assign to this widget, such that someone will still buy it." If they do anything else, they risk the wrath of shareholders and, potentially, regulators.

Now, at the low end, most of us (we're an S-Corp) are so small as to be considered closely held. This means that a business like mine can make decisions favoring quality over net revenue. Yes, there's some give and take, but for the most part we can go the quality route. We don't have a to implement something like "no phone call with a customer can last longer than 2.3 minutes, even if their problem isn't solved. They can call back multiple times for resolution, but our stats need to be maintained." (Actual, real-life thinking at a company I used to work for.)

Ah, well. That was a ramble I guess. [Wink]

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 12-16-2010 07:12 PM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About a year ago I had a print of something for kids shows with horrible splicing tape that had been used on it. Coming off in tiny pieces, spend 10 minutes getting the tape off the print and then another 5 minutes getting the little bits off of my fingers. Took me a whole shift to build this one 5 reel print.

The other thing I’ve encountered a few times now on used prints is metal cue tape that is hard to get off. The brand that we use is metal on both sides and the sticky side is very early to remove once applied. However a few prints have come in with metal cue tape that has like a masking tape style base on the sticky side so when you peel it off you get a white paper residue left on the print. Had that a few times now.

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David E. Nedrow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 368
From: Columbus, OH, USA
Registered: Oct 2008


 - posted 12-16-2010 08:24 PM      Profile for David E. Nedrow   Author's Homepage   Email David E. Nedrow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Michael B
About a year ago I had a print of something for kids shows with horrible splicing tape that had been used on it. Coming off in tiny pieces, spend 10 minutes getting the tape off the print and then another 5 minutes getting the little bits off of my fingers. Took me a whole shift to build this one 5 reel print.
That's exactly how this was. I ended up with bits of tape all over me after just two splices.

I figure I'll saturate the remaining splices for a couple of minutes with naptha, or maybe some denatured alcohol.

-David

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-16-2010 11:33 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Michael Brown
...and then another 5 minutes getting the little bits off of my fingers.
I really hate that crap. That's definitely a candidate for frame deletion, and I am not a fan of chopping frames. Exceptions apply, of course. Some movie that has had 3,000 runs can get the chop if they have such bad splices, but I'll spend time peeling every bit of tape off of rarer/older prints.

I do think it is funny how some of you will spend hours trying to peel off bad tape but have no problem lopping off an ID frame.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-17-2010 12:14 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: David E. Nedrow
I figure I'll saturate the remaining splices for a couple of minutes with naptha, or maybe some denatured alcohol.
While I do keep a small stash of things like that for use in such contingencies, FilmGuard does the job for me 90% of the time.

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Chase Pickett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 142
From: Irving, Texas, USA
Registered: Nov 2010


 - posted 12-17-2010 05:13 AM      Profile for Chase Pickett   Email Chase Pickett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Randy Stankey
FilmGuard does the job for me 90% of the time.
Wait. That can't be a good thing. DAMN YOU FILM GUARD! You are the reason my splices deteriorate! Just kidding. I haven't experienced Film Guard lessening the integrity of any splices?

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-17-2010 12:23 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did say, "90%."

Yes, if you get too happy with the FG it can make it harder for your splicing tape to hold but, in regular use, you are only supposed to use the minimum amount and, in an alternative use such as removing splicing tape, you have to make sure you wipe as much of it off as you can.

Yes, FG can dissolve the adhesive and make your splices let loose but that's user error, not the product's fault. That would be like shooting yourself in the foot then blaming the brand of bullets you bought.

I also keep a can of VM&P Naptha stashed away in the bottom of the cabinet just for use in those emergencies when I need it.

But, to be honest, I don't get to the point where I need it that often. If the splice is so crapped up that I need to use anything more than a dab of FG to clean it I'll probably just cut the film. If the guy before me was stupid enough to use such shitty tape and uncaring enough to leave it as-is that probably means I'll be better off remaking the splice. Why take the risk?

Just to be clear, this is a case-by-case judgment. Rare, archival or otherwise important films do not get the same treatment as run-of-the-mill release prints with respect to cutting and splicing the reel ends. I don't just cut film any old time but there are times when it's best for the long-term health of the print.

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