my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Question: KINOTON PK60D disgasted parts (Page 1)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: Question: KINOTON PK60D disgasted parts Martin Daian Expert Film Handler Posts: 227 From: Montevideo, Uruguay Registered: Jul 2003 posted 03-02-2012 08:20 PM                    Hello, i have 4 Kinoton PK60D , all the four units are made in July 2005 and used until June of 2011, 6 years of usage from new, well i replaced the trap and gates, all the rest looks without disgast but in the four intermittent movements have play, i speak with a German friend and explainme that the intermittent framing couple have disgast, my questions about are: What is the life in hours of these part? what will be the cost of these new parts to replace for the disgasted? the part i am looking looks made of Teflon and in the Kinoton manual the part number is: COUPLING BUSHING COMPLETE FOR INTERMITTENT MOVEMENT 16D code number 1000 525 27003 any help are very welcome, Thank you, Martin  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-02-2012 10:15 PM                     It depends on the operating conditions. One issue the PK60D ran into is that it often was not used with a Kinoton Lamphouse. As such, the heat in the gate area as well as the intermittent was higher. As a result, the teflon coupling failed sooner. Their lifespan really is not a specific time...it is all in how they are used (including if you crank your skate tension. -Steve  |  IP: Logged Martin Daian Expert Film Handler Posts: 227 From: Montevideo, Uruguay Registered: Jul 2003 posted 03-03-2012 09:54 AM                    Hi Steve, Thank you for your valuable information, i never think that the heat of the lamphouse affect that mechansim, i never use this projectors before, the person that sells to me the projectors use with Strong Highlitte II console as i seen on the pictures he sent before that i buy from him, i note that the projector missing the heat filters also so this will be the cause of the fast disgast of th eteflon piece, well, i need to find these parts, whenre i will buy these parts brand new? THank you again, Martin  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-03-2012 11:07 AM                     Any Kinoton dealer can get you the parts...they are still in production (as are new projectors). We have PK60s running since about 2001/2 era on original couplings. Never an issue.  |  IP: Logged Martin Daian Expert Film Handler Posts: 227 From: Montevideo, Uruguay Registered: Jul 2003 posted 03-04-2012 09:56 PM                    Hello Steve, Thank you for your help, so if you have running Kinoton's from years 2001 and still not have changed the coupling that's wonderfull, mine are made in middle of 2005 adn the four machines present little movement in the four faces of the intermittent, i check that movement taken with the hand the intermittent sprocket and moving it i detect very tiny movement on the sprocket, don't know if that's normal or not, i not want movement in the screen, i buy these Kinoton's for that other collectors and film technician recommend that Kinotons saying that have the most steady picture on the screen than other projector brands and that running very quiet, maybe the little movement on the intermittent sprocket is normal? i check the screews on the intermittent sprocket and are very tight, not moves on the screw, but the movewment i detect on the sprocket is tiny, don't knowif i will have problems on th escreen, i still not project on the screen, i am assembly recentlly my projection room so i will test tomorrow the projection to see if moves or not. Thank you, Martin  |  IP: Logged Geoff Newitt Film Handler Posts: 49 From: FARINGDON, OXFORDSHIRE, UK Registered: Dec 2011 posted 03-15-2012 01:43 PM                     Have you checked/lubricated/adjusted the intermittent sprocket shaft outboard bearing? Common cause of picture instability on Philips/Kinoton machines. If it's slack you'll have too much end float on the sprocket shaft, as it moves in and out the racking bush will rotate the sprocket shaft relative to the cross of the intermittent. Just be careful not to over-tighten it!  |  IP: Logged Martin Daian Expert Film Handler Posts: 227 From: Montevideo, Uruguay Registered: Jul 2003 posted 03-17-2012 08:46 PM                    Hello Geoff, Thank you for your help, i think about to check the outboard bearing, i disarm tonight the four hex screws on the top and remove the aluminium top cover and see that's have grease on the bearing, also no horizontal lateral play on the shaft of the intermittent sprocket, the only play i see is vertical up and down and on each of the four faces of the starwhell, the rare thing is that when i put the frame knob on one of the top the play is over, only have play when the frame knob is on the middle possition that's is where need to be allways, i assume that the coupling intermittent pieces have disgast, don't know how that the four projectors i have are practically like new, i only will think that anybody before to sell to me change the four coupling parts on each machine, i speak with other persons that uses Kinotons and say that not will be possible that in this models made in the end of 2005 have disgasted the intermittent couplings, i note that the screws on the traps have signs of be removed before so i only will think that the couplings are changed for disgasted ones couplings, the new couplings on Kinoton cost arround $ 400 each, is a lot of money for that little pieces, Thank you again, Martin Daian  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-27-2012 04:47 AM                     Martin, the framing bush can be worn out in a very short space of time, if the mech is run with excessive trap tension or with the skate height badly adjusted. One could easily destroy the framing bush in the time frame you mention if the machine was run in the manner I've described. Much less time in fact.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 03-27-2012 09:50 AM                       I agree with Pete. What usually happens is the skates wear out much more quickly than other projectors and the operator increases the gate tension to keep the film from jumping instead of changing the skates as the projector does not come with any spare skates and unless the dealer specifically ordered them. We installed an EC-2 at Pixar and at more than $100,000 you would think they would include a few spare parts. They do not. Kinoton could save everyone a lot of trouble if they did, but this is not the way they work.  |  IP: Logged Martin Daian Expert Film Handler Posts: 227 From: Montevideo, Uruguay Registered: Jul 2003 posted 03-27-2012 11:08 AM                    Hello Pete, and Hello Sam, Thank you for your informations, Also will help to use Kelmar cleaner unit with lubricant for film and a fair gate tension. looks like the operators of the theater that sell to me the projectors uses that in the maximum pressure gate, i note that the gates are totally disgasted on the intermitent sprocket section, i put new ones, Thank you, Martin  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 03-27-2012 12:56 PM                     Sam, I think the last batch of FP50D's I installed in Ireland came with spare runners & skates. As well as enough oil and grease to last a lifetime. Also a full set of Allen keys and a nice wee lends cleaning cloth with each one. Of course your experience in the US may be different from Europe. Martin, you have answered your won question, if the skates are chewed up, they have inexpertly adjusted.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 03-27-2012 02:52 PM                       Regarding the issue of spare parts, I was a surprised to find no spares. There were wrenches and oil to be sure and only the apertures I specifically ordered, but no extras. There are many options when ordering Kinoton and it's kind of like building your own projector for a list of parts translated from German to English. It could be whoever ordered the projectors added the spares, unless Pete personally placed the order. Mind you, in the end, the results are spectacular and it is the best of all projectors, on the screen.  |  IP: Logged Martin Daian Expert Film Handler Posts: 227 From: Montevideo, Uruguay Registered: Jul 2003 posted 03-27-2012 04:44 PM                    Thank you Sam  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-27-2012 05:15 PM                     All of my customers have a full set of spares with Kinoton <smug> What is odd about Kinoton is they give you a spare set of runner strips and two ceramic discs for 35mm (but no spare 16mm if you get an FP38) and no skates. Picking on Kinoton for not providing spares would be like picking on Simplex for not including extra tension bands or turret drive tires...etc Or for Christie to not include belts...etc. A good dealer should come up with a suitable spare parts list. We actually did to ensure that the end user has skates, belts, framing lamps, push button lamps...etc I can see if one dabbles in selling the machines not knowing what should be sold as spares...but an experienced Kinoton dealer should be able to come up with a spares list pretty easily. As Sam pointed out...Kinoton's are somewhat a la carte. As such no one spare part kit will suffice for all. So the designer/dealer should come up with a suitable spares list for the particular customer. And for aperture plates...again they provide the basics...a 1.85 plate, a Scope plate, a pin-hole and typically an "N" plate (1.37 scribed lines). If you have a bunch of formats, order what you need.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-27-2012 05:45 PM                        While we are on the topic... What is the failure mode of the ceramic discs? Do they crack or otherwise disintegrate? I remove them from time to time for cleaning, but am curious as to when and why one would feel the need to replace them. (I have not worked with these machines in commercial theatres that run every day, so I'm not sure what the failure modes are in the "normal" duty cycle.) And why do some Kinoton skates (the ones that I have seen are with the "E" machines, though I am not sure if that is always the case) have a little spring thing to keep them upright when opened, while others just flop around unless/until they bang into the back of the lens.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.