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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Topic: What Killed 3-D in the 1950's?
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Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 06-30-2012 02:22 PM
I've ran the older 3D setups using single projector setups.
The classic one was "the Stewardesses", in 1971. There was a dual image on the film - a side-by-side image that was squeezed vertically to fit within the frame. Thus the results on the screen was a 1.33:1 image.
The lenses were a split vertical prime and convergence elements to blend the two images together, then the front anamorphic attachment to expand the image. Obviously, the prime elements had to be squared in with the frame to make the correct convergence.
We had to run larger carbons, modify our exhaust for such, put in infared reflectors to get more light out.
Thing about the old system is that it was the linear polarization, where if you sit on the sides, you lose the 3d effect.
Luckily, we still had the silver screen that was installed for these initial early 50's releases (including the CinemaScope releases), thus we were in good shape there.
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Stephen Furley
Film God
Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002
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posted 06-30-2012 06:57 PM
Hi Bob, haven't heard from you for a long time. It's almost 1 a.m. now, but I'll read that tomorrow.
Monte, I've never seen 'The Stewardesses', but I did once visit the box at the National Film Theatre the day after it had been shown, and saw the optics which were used for it; I don't think I've ever seen so much hardware hung on the front of a projector.
I did see 'House of Wax' in this format, the image was rather dim, but I was told that the print was rather dark, which didn't help. Were any other films released in this format?
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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God
Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 07-01-2012 12:25 AM
Welcome to the forum, Robert. Although I never responded to your discussions about 3-D at the Home Theatre Forum, I have been very interested in the various topics about the process at that site
Honolulu only had one theatre set up for first run dual projection 3-D films in the fifties. It was the Liberty theatre on Nuuanu Street, operated by Consolidated Amusement. Beside the Liberty there were four others that was equipped for dual projection 3-D. They were the Varsity, Haleiwa, Victory and the Pearl City that showed the movies after they played at the Liberty.
All of the earlier films in 3-D were shown at the Liberty and the other theatres but after a period of time, all of the better films such as KISS ME KATE, DIAL M FOR MURDER, MISS SADIE THOMPSON and HONDO were shown in 2-D in Honolulu at Consolidated's other first run theatres such as the WaikIki, Kuhio, Princess and the Hawaii. Just when I thought 3-D films was dead, the Liberty showed one more in 3-D. It was THE CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON and it was fantastic! The 3-D presentations at the Liberty and the Pearl City were flawless and because of that I never got an eye strain. The glasses in the fifties were very comfortable and I never had a problem with them. I did not wear prescription glasses at the time but I do now and I still do not mind wearing them today when I watch an excellent 3-D film like AVATAR and HUGO.
I have always loved 3-D of the fifties ever since I first saw BWANA DEVIL and have seen almost every one that was shown in the process either at the Liberty or the Pearl City near where I live. The current 3-D films shown in digital IMAX, Real D and Dolby 3-D are good but they just cannot compare to the dual projection process used in the fifties. The over /under single strip process used in the seventies was dreadful and I did not like it all all. The 3-D lacked depth and because only one projector was used, the picture was extremely dark.
-Claude
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 07-01-2012 03:18 PM
As a kid, I only saw FORT TI and THE HOUSE OF WAX and never experienced eye strain, possibly because the theatre I saw them in was the Century Fresh Meadows which, at that time, was one of Century's Flag Ship theatres and a beautifully run house. I am assuming projection was top draw as well. And like Claude, the glasses never bothered me. By the time I saw HOUSE OF WAX, the glass had improved to plastic with the plastic covered wire that you formed the exact distance around your ear.
Thanks to Bob for those great 3D observations. The one thing I would add to the reason for the death of 50s 3D -- after sitting through nearly all the 50s 3D titles that still exist at the 3D World Expo, it becomes painfully obvious to me that most of those titles were at best, grade B titles. Aside from THE HOUSE OF WAX, DIAL M FOR MURDER, KISS ME KATE, HONDO and possibly FORT TI and THOSE REDHEADS FROM SEATLE, the rest were really pretty awful and you could see how people could associate just really terrible films with 3D given the 3D output. I would venture that schlock like GOG did as much to turn people off to 3D as did the technical problems.
Then just in time, along came CinemaScope and THE ROBE with its high power cast, religious theme and huge advertising budget not to mention Zanuck's white lie that implied it was 3D that you could see without glasses, and the fickle public turned away from the 3D screen to marvel at shiney (silver) new wide, wide CinemaScope screen. Had the studios invested as much in good stories and their A talent in 3D, it might have survived long enough for the kinks to actually be worked out. Some 3D had already been release in stereo sound and as Bob pointed out -- Polaroid had developed a sync kit, but it was too late.
Given the ease of the anamorphic process on both the production end as well as the ease of operation for exhibition in the booth, it's no wonder both ends of the industry dumped 3D in favor of the new kid on the block, CinemaScope.
Whereas 3D was a way to fight the flight to TV as America's primary entertainment, CinemaScope worked on two fronts. Yes, it functioned to compete with TV as did 3D, but it also was a way to capitalize on the infatuation the public had with that upstart Cinerama which was packing houses at nearly every show and which hadn't sprung from the loins of the Hollywood studios. The studio heads were painfully aware of that fact and they wanted some of THAT MONEY!
Everything about CinemaScope, from the wide, curved screen to the multichannel stereo sound with a surround channel, it all mimiced Cinerama. CinemaScope was a poor many's Cinerama and it did boffo business...so who needed 3D? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God
Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 07-01-2012 03:20 PM
I do not believe it was television that caused the demise of the 3-D format in the fifties. The many complaints I am hearing about current 3-D is the surcharge, poor 3-D from 2-D conversion and the reluctance of having to wear glasses to watch the movies. The only complaint I remember hearing about 3-D in the fifties was eye strain and nothing else.
As I had stated in my earlier post, I loved the 3-D of the fifties. Beside HOUSE OF WAX, some of the other memorable films I remember seeing in 3-D were INFERNO, THE MAZE, THOSE REDHEADS FROM SEATTLE, SANGAREE, FORT TI, ARENA and IT CAME FROM OUT OF SPACE. There was one film I saw during the fifties in 2-D because it was only released that way but it would have been fun to have seen it in it's original 3-D. The film was TOP BANANA starring Phil Silvers and it was from a Broadway show he was in. There were others I had seen in 2-D that would have looked cool in 3-D. Two that come to mind were DRUMS OF TAHITI and ROBOT MONSTOR. I know ROBOT MONSTOR was released in 3-D but it never played at the LIBERTY. Did DRUMS OF TAHITI ever play in 3-D anywhere?
-Claude
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Robert Furmanek
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 113
From: Clifton, NJ, USA
Registered: Jun 2012
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posted 07-01-2012 06:26 PM
Frank: I respectfully disagree with your comment that most of the films are poor. See Myth #6: http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/top-10-3-d-myths
Titles like THE GLASS WEB, INFERNO, DANGEROUS MISSION, MONEY FROM HOME, CHARGE AT FEATHER RIVER, SECOND CHANCE and MISS SADIE THOMPSON are good examples of well done, entertaining 3-D films.
Robert: the film with the native throwing a spear is BWANA DEVIL. the first feature. Interesting to hear that the one shot stays in your mind; it's on screen for about 5 seconds! The rest of the film is not very memorable.
Did you work at the Pomona Fox on West Third street? What a gorgeous theater. The listing on Cinema Treasures says 1,751 seats.
Claude: Thank you for sharing your memories of seeing the films first-run. That's very interesting to hear.
DRUMS OF TAHITI had some 3-D bookings, but not many. I know that it opened flat in New York and Los Angeles. It was a Sam Katzman/William Castle programmer from Columbia. Not one of the better ones.
And I agree 100%. Dual 35mm Polaroid 3-D, properly presented, stands head and shoulders above the quality of today's 3-D product.
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Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God
Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 07-01-2012 08:16 PM
Robert,
With the demise of dual projection 3-D in the fifties after it was replaced with other film formats such as Cinerama, CinemaScope, VistaVision, etc, I never had the pleasure of seeing all the wonderfull 3-D films again because the Liberty was sold and became a first run venue for films from Japan's Nikkatsu Studio. A few years later it was sold again and it became Hong Kong's Shaw Brothers first run venue for their films. Because iof a lack of interest, Consolidated never botherd with 3-D revival showings at their other 3-D theatre , the Varsity and that was a shame. When you had a grand revival showing of 3-D at the Egyptian Theatre with almost all of the classic films on the program about fifteen years ago, I really wanted to be there but because of my busy schedule with my photographic career, I was not able to hop on a plane and spend a week seeing my favorites as well as other films I have never seen in 3-D.
Now that DIAL M FOR MURDER and CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON has been announced for release on Blu Ray, what do you think of the possibility of one or two day showings of some of the classic 3-D films of the fifties in theatres? It would be great if Turner Classic Movies could do something similar like they did with CASABLANCA and the current SINGING IN THE RAIN theatrical showings with 3-D films such as KISS ME KATE , DIAL M FOR MURDER and HOUSE OF WAX. Although Paramount was short sighted when they recently released HONDO in 2-D only on Blu Ray when when they could have released it in 3-D as well because restored elelments of the movie in the format was available, this movie could also be shown in theatres again in 3-D.
-Claude
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