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Topic: CP650 connection conflict?

Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 02-18-2013 05:33 PM

Okay. Finally getting around to connecting everything up, and I fear I might have painted myself into an audio corner.

I've got a single projector, (a nicely restored JJ with basement analog and digital pickups) a full CP650, (not an SR or a D) an MPU for both 70 and 35 mag, and a DTS-6D with pickup. Idea was, of course, to be able to play as many formats as possible as needed with just some projector re-configuration.

So I started to map out the audio cables I'd need to have, get or build. That's when I read that both the MPU and the output cable from the DTS-6D were expecting to go into the (sole) 6 channel analog input on the CP650.

Uh oh...

Is there a solution so that everyone can live together in peace and harmony? Was hoping to just have to change the audio format on the front panel rather than switch cables in the back over and over...

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 02-18-2013 10:49 PM

Yes Virginia, there is an easy way out.

DTS makes a relay board with all DB-25 connectors on it, (It's a D567 if I recall) that will do the switching automatically. When DTS sees a valid signal, it will trigger the relays to switch the DTS online. When the relays aren;t active the other DB25 is active.

I used that board to switch between the DTS and the video system audio at UCI.

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Alban Birch
Film Handler

Posts: 63
From: Luxembourg-city , Luxembourg
Registered: Jan 2007

posted 02-19-2013 03:20 AM

Much simpler and cheaper, get a DB25-Switchbox.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000I9B2K0

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Peter Castle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 02-19-2013 06:09 AM

The switch box is what we've used with our CP500 for years.
We have a 4-input unit: DTS, DCinema, eCinema and VideoSource audio. The only problem is that mechanical switches are prone to not connect perfectly. Would like an electronic equivalent, but they're expensive.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 02-19-2013 04:21 PM

Alban, a switch box isn't a bad idea, except for what Peter pointed out...the contacts get flakey after a while. The relay board I suggested has sealed relays that will keep going for a long time, and the change from DTS to other source is automatic. Of course the drawback is it only gives you one input other than DTS. And the board was not that pricey IIRC.

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Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 02-19-2013 04:40 PM

Thanks for the replies.

Nervous about the mechanical switches. They are just a little too unreliable for me. Oh well. Even talked with one person who could have sworn that there was a pass-thru connector on the DTS that was active when the unit was off. (Must have been thinking of some other unit)

But the idea of the D567 sounds about right. Looked closely inside the box - turns out there's a D567 Rev C right in there. Cool. Odd layout. 5 (not 6) relays on the board, a single female DB25 connector, and two 20 pin Molex connectors, one on each side.

So - questions:
1) Anybody have the 20 pin Molex (marked From JM11 and From JM12) to DB-25 cable around? Is it ribbon, or does it require shielded? I'm sure I can get a 20 pin to bare wire to connect to the MPU myself. (Again - ribbon or shielded?) If not, pinouts?

2) The DTS manual was written before the CP650 came out, so no wiring diagram. My guesses below:

timecode reader to DTS unit (DB-9 - straight pin-thru all 9 pins)
DTS Analog output to D567 (DB-25 cable to Molex 20 pin? Which side? JM11 or JM12?)
MPU output to D567 (MPU Out to Molex 20 pin?)
D567 to Analog input on CP650 (normal male to male DB-25 cable from Fry's? Or custom pin configuration?)

3) What does the automation cable do? Haven't read anything that talks about it much. Do I need one? (normal DB-25 cable same as above?)

Thanks.

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004

posted 02-19-2013 06:17 PM

Jim:

Contact DataSat (DTS) they have a newer version of that board that has all three DB25 connectors...the manual here shows the early version of the card.

So to answer your questions:

#1: Don't worry about the connectors, see above.
#2: For the CP650, the cables will be as follows:
a: From Relay board to CP650 input, a standard DB25 with ALL pins active;
b: From your MPU to the relay board, pins wired from the MPU outputs to the input of the relay board;
c: From the DTS 6D to the relay board, a DB 25 cable with the following male pins removed (VERY IMPORTANT TO REMOVE THESE PINS) PINS 16, 18 and 21.

Here's a link to DTS connection notes that cover automation and audio:

DTS 6D to CP 650

As for automation, a standard DB25 cable with all pins active and a D715 interface board is required. (I may have a spare D715, call me. )

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Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 03-06-2013 04:03 PM

So it turns out the card is actually a 557. Seems the 557 already has the right connectors, the 567 does not. Am getting one from Cardinal. So here's the other half of the question:

The 557 will be switching between the DTS-6D and an MPU. It's a wiring question between the MPU and the 557. The CP650 has it's 6 channel analog input, and the manual nicely spells out the inputs for L-C-R-Sw-Ls-Rs. The MPU output is, of course, for L-Le-C-Re-R-Sw. Since the 557 wires straight through, how is the discrepancy between Ls-Le and Rs-Re supposed to be handled? Straight across? Please, please tell me it wasn't different from film release to film release. What a mess that would have been...

Remember that this is coming from a JJ that will sometimes run 70. No, nothing early with five stage channels. Trailer reel(s), a reel of Alien, and a (red) print of The Rose. So far, at least.

Looking to put this one to bed. Thanks.

Oh yes, one more important detail. The CP650 is a full 650 with a cat790 card in it. Someday I'll spring for a 791 for full Le and Re support, but not just now still at a thousand bucks. Not even sure just how that would change the wiring layout.

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Jim Henk
Master Film Handler

Posts: 364
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted 03-12-2013 08:54 PM

Information gleaned: (if of interest)
Yes, wire straight through, the 650 in Format 42 should be able to tell the difference between an old print with Le and Re, and newer (post 1965?) with SL and SR, and switch it around internally, depending. (assuming a 791 card is installed to handle Le and Re, of course)

Really? How in the world can the 650 tell the difference?

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