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Author Topic: Veronese LX1600 Flavio Stabile Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Roma, Italia, Italia Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-01-2013 03:56 AM                     Hello Guys! I'm new to the Forum and first of all I would like to say hello to everyone here! Well, coming to the reason of writing here, I just acquired from Germany a Veronese LX 1600 35mm projector. It is in good condition but I'm experiencing a problem with sound. I know it has been equipped with an original veronese red laser plus a stereo solarcell not dolby, but presumibly the one from Thomas Rahnert of FTT Cine Service. Also the original MONO internal amplifier has been replaced with a stereo pre-amplifier and my doubts are that the problems come from this one! Infact I have connected the two Line outputs of this to an external amplifier and on the left channel I can hear an intermittent noise, like a buzz! I uploaded a video (only sound indeed) to let you hear what I'm referring to https://vimeo.com/63030552 Any idea or suggestion? I'm also searching for FTT to get more information and the schematics of the amp, but I cannot find any reference in the web... Is it still active? Thanks Flavio  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-01-2013 05:18 AM                     Hello Flavio, You should have an A-Chain done, but I have a bit of experience with those machines and lasers and I've never been able to reach an acceptable sound quality. Check the film position while it's being played: does it move left/right on the drum? Mechanical settings are crucial but found that you'll still have some movements anyway. Also, those laser/cell - not sure who is responsible - will produce a weird background buzz that can be heard sometimes, again I don't know exactly why, I remember that I did try everything at the time. What you're experiencing is not what I mean, just mentioning that you'll find hard to get rid of all noises.  |  IP: Logged Flavio Stabile Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Roma, Italia, Italia Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-01-2013 10:16 AM                     Hello Marco! I'm trying to use the projector exactly like the previous owner, with some occasional open air projections, and with only an external amplifier and a couple of loudspeakers. It's not my intention to use a dolby cp-xx connected to solar cell output and create a real A chain for this projector, If I well understood your point... I have been assured, from the previous owner, that the projector fully worked, also in the sound part. The strange is indeed, as you wrote, that the film, on the roller (i.e when film is passing through the brake pression roller and brake roller) preceding the cell, moves a bit on the left and right, during the play, continuosly... but why? Any problem with some pression to be regulated? If yes, in which way? Apart from the buzz, the sound appears to me of excellent quality, so I can't follow you when you say that a good sound cannot be obtained from these portable machines. Of course I need to understand now the source of this sound fault, because in this way the projector cannod be used at all! Again, I ask if everyone knows how FTT Cine Service, or his boss Thomas Rahnert, can be contacted. Flavio  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 04-01-2013 11:42 AM                     Try this: Film Ton Technik Hannsdieter Rüttgers GmbH Jahnstraße 37 - 41 D-40215 Düsseldorf E-mail: office@ftt-online.de Phone: + 49 (0) 211 - 30 20 51 - 0 Fax: + 49 (0) 211 - 38 17 34 AFAIK FTT has been sold to or merged with DCINEX: dcinex home  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-01-2013 01:54 PM                     Hi Flavio, The A-Chain is not restricted to Dolby processors. A-Chain means mechanical adjustments of your laser/cell to make sure the cell is not picking up what it shouldn't - what apparently it is doing now. I clearly remember that a little movement was unavoidable on that machine - even though it should NOT happen. But you have to minimize it. It was years ago, so I cannot fully remember right now, but you have to make sure that the guiding rollers do not have any play. I think they were two rollers mounted on ball bearing, on spring loaded arms. Those were on the right side of the machine and, in fact, were the only mechanical guide for the film on the sound drum. If those rollers have play, you have to install same spacers. You can buy of different size and thickness. Make also sure that all the plastic rollers are free to spin. Then, I would suggest your A-Chain to be checked.  |  IP: Logged Flavio Stabile Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Roma, Italia, Italia Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-01-2013 03:43 PM                     Marco, You are completely right... I tried different films with different results... On some film the buzz is completely absent.. mainly mono trailers! On other films, with stereo, dts and dolby digital tracks, I experienced different results. On some of them i heard the buzz on channel right, continuos, but in this case I didn't notice any movement of the film on the rollers. On some others, as above, but the buzz was on left channel... I experienced the intermittent buzz only when the film moved left and right on the rollers. So... How can I avoid these different situations? Why the defect is not always the same? Can it depend on the various films? Can it depend on dirty rollers? How can I clean them? I don't think there is play on them that requires spacers, but I'm not completely sure... Why is the sound on the trailers always ok? I tried to use Fil Guardto clean the film, but the result is absolutely negative! The film became instable on e screen, and so I had to stop immediately to use it! Any help or idea is wellcome! Flavio  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-01-2013 03:55 PM                     Part of what you are hearing is DTS timecode It is imperative that if you are to have decent sound the weeving needs to be stabalized On some lasers the overall width of the slit could be masked down to limit overscan but the veroneese units I am infamiliar with  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-01-2013 04:35 PM                     Possibly too much Film Guard and anyway you may need to tighten the gate when using it. As Gordon said, what you hear is the DTS timecode (to be honest I knew that a bad A-Chain could cause the DTS timecode to be read, but I had never heard it with my ears!). As said, you need to first stabilise the film. It must NOT move. As I told you, I found that a little instability was unavoidable with that projector, but it could have been my machine. If you are not familiar with the projector mechanic, you need to take the projector to a cinema engineer and have it aligned for you. Those machines are not very popular, the best place would be Veronese himself if you are not far away from him.  |  IP: Logged Flavio Stabile Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Roma, Italia, Italia Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-02-2013 07:45 AM                     I contacted Dr. Veronese and he was very kind to answer me! I need to try to regulate the BUZZ of the laser simply rotating a screw, as supposed by Gordon! I will try this evening! Furthermore he told me to check if the compenser roller has a game, leaving the film to move horizontaly, as supposed by Marco... If a game is present it should be eliminated but i need to understand how... I will update you about the result! :-) Flavio  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 04-02-2013 11:47 AM                        quote: Marco Guistini As Gordon said, what you hear is the DTS timecode (to be honest I knew that a bad A-Chain could cause the DTS timecode to be read, but I had never heard it with my ears!). This can also be caused by a poorly aligned printer causing the DTS timecode to be printed slightly out of position, too close to the inner SVA track. The Universal releases of the mid-90s that didn't have Dolby digital (just DTS and SVA) were particularly bad for this: Jurassic Park 2 sticks in my mind. I suspect it was because their SVA tracks weren't genuine Dolby, but DTS's own knock-off. In the theatre I was working at the time, which was not equipped for DTS (i.e. we had to play the SVA track) we even realigned the cell on one of our two 35mm projectors (the platter could feed either), one for Universal DTS prints and the other for everything else.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 04-02-2013 12:08 PM                     Flavio, Remember that it's very easy to mess everything up if you don't have the proper tools and alignment loops. Give it a try, but be ready to have an engineer to look at it. The machine can be carried around, it would not take too much time for an engineer to calibrate your sound reader.  |  IP: Logged Flavio Stabile Film Handler Posts: 9 From: Roma, Italia, Italia Registered: Mar 2005 posted 04-03-2013 02:08 PM                     Well, I was able to regolate the screw, as indicated by Dr. Veronese, and the laser is now aligned without interfering with DTS timecode! No buzz is more present and the sound is now clean! Regarding the movement of the film I noticed that some rollers cannot rotate freely around their axis and this should be the cause why the film tends to shift horizontally right<->left. I need now to remove the rollers and lubricate them internally... Any suggestion about what lubricant to use? The fight against the various c-clips (a nightmare for me!) has just begun... Flavio  |  IP: Logged

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