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Author Topic: Retrofit Kinoton FP-30D for reel to reel? J-sun Bailey Film Handler Posts: 12 From: Fairfield, Maine, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-09-2013 11:03 AM                     We are looking at replacing our current FP 20 35mm projectors with some new (to us) Kinoton FP30D's. The problem is that we run reel to reel occasionally when we get archival prints. The FP30D's are not setup for reel to reel, does anyone know if there is a way to retrofit these for reel to reel? Either by purchasing the parts to do this, or using existing parts on our FP 20s? Thanks in Advance.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 10-09-2013 11:13 AM                     Yes, you should be able to retro fit them, but I'm not sure if parts from the FP-20 can be used. Do you mean the old FP-20, or the current FP-20A? I'm guessing the former. I've never seen an FP-30 which was not equipped to run reels, but the option is mentioned on the Kinoton web site. There are different column lengths, and if you use any type of penthouse readers this may restrict the size of reels which you can run, depending on how the readers are mounted and the length of the columns.  |  IP: Logged Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 10-09-2013 02:17 PM                     Does you're FP20 have electromagnetic dowser? You need two things to do changeover, one is to do- picture changeover and other for sound (done by processor) and i don't see any other problem, except mounting spool arms for take up and take off, which you can easy today, even i know all old FP2 have it.  |  IP: Logged J-sun Bailey Film Handler Posts: 12 From: Fairfield, Maine, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-09-2013 02:23 PM                     Yes I believe it does have the electromagnetic dowser, They used to be used with an automation system just don't have the spindles, and the drive train needed for the take up reel at the bottom. So my thoughts are can I purchase the needed spindles, drive chain, and metal plates (to fit the spindles)?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-09-2013 04:47 PM                     what do you gain by changing machines the fp20 and 30 are almost the same  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-09-2013 06:01 PM                     The FP-20 and FP-30D are very different projectors. They only share a similar threading path. The 30D has electronic pull down. The FP-20 is all mechanical. With prices on used FP-XXD projectors being so low right now I'd be taking advantage of installing them as well if they fit the bill... Later FP-XXD projectors handle older prints much better then they used to. Early ones were kind of finikey about old film.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-09-2013 06:31 PM                     Sorry Mark but i believe that the D is a standard star & cam mechanical machine the E serries is the electronic movement  |  IP: Logged J-sun Bailey Film Handler Posts: 12 From: Fairfield, Maine, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-09-2013 07:28 PM                     Well honestly we were looking at them as an upgrade, the FP 20's that we have now were purchased used in 1992, the FP30D's were new in 2005, we can get them for what is a very good price, and they have about 1/4 of the hours on them.  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 10-09-2013 10:29 PM                     Well I am gonna throw my hat in the ring here and state the following: 1: Unless the FP-20's have any serious mechanical or electrical issues, leave them in place. 2: As Gordon pointed out, the 30D's are still mechanical transports. 3: The money is better spent on sound system upgrades. (Or to start saving for a D-Cinema system upgrade/add-on.) 4: The FP-20's are pretty bulletproof and parts can still be had for them. And finally, be honest..how much longer are you SURE you will be running film? Unless you are POSITIVE you are going to be grinding out 4-5 shows a day for the next 5-10 years, you don't need "new" machines with 1/4 the time on them.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 10-10-2013 03:03 AM                     Marin, The FP-20 and FP-30D don't use spool arms; they are both column designs. I was thinking last night about the reason for wanting to upgrade from FP-20 to FP-30D. I can think of a few possible reasons: What condition are the FP-20s in? Are they going to need many new parts and much work doing to keep them in good condition? If so then it may actually be cheaper to buy the FP-30s. What soundheads do the FP-20s have, and are they equipped for Dolby Digital? If they have the original soundheads then what red light conversions do they have? If the FP-30Ds date from 2005 then they probably had the Kinoton reverse scan readers on them from new, and quite possibly the combined analogue and digital version. This may be of value to you. What else, if anything, would be included with the FP-30Ds? For example, would you get any lenses of appropriate focal length which are better than your current ones? Again, this may be of value to you. I have never done it, though I probably will next year, but I believe that the FP-30D with its invertor drive is easier to run at variable speed than the FP-20. Could be useful if you intend to run silent film. If none of these apply, then there's probably not much to be gained by replacing the FP-20s. On the other hand, this is a good time to be buying used 35 mm equipment, with plenty of it available at low prices. A few years from now most of it will have been either sold or scrapped, there will be much less available, and prices for what is available are likely to be higher. There are a few problems which I have found with the FP-30. They use more relays, which can be a source of reliability problems. The changeover shutters tend to be a bit sluggish, more so than the FP-20 in my experience. The column design can sometimes be a problem for reel-to-reel operation when mounting penthouse readers, film cleaners etc. Of course, this also applies to the FP-20.  |  IP: Logged Jonathan Wood Expert Film Handler Posts: 206 From: Oxfordshire, United kingdom Registered: Jan 2008 posted 10-11-2013 02:44 AM                     I tend to agree with Tony, is it worthwhile changing them, if it ain't broke don't fix it! If you do try to use the fp 20 parts on the 30 then check whether the take up drive is the same. I have a feeling its different on A and D series projectors due to the Direct drive on the D series, I could be wrong , I usually am! I have an FP 20 but not close to hand so I can't check. Steven , re the relays in a D series, they can be a pain if you are rigging them for home use, I managed it with my FP40 but as its been converted to portable use, I ended up removing the entire door including the mother board etc and installed a new inverter inside the machine , it's made it much simpler and lighter , and you can still retain turret and ap control via the existing boards inside the projector. Now all I have to do is figure out how to keep the prints coming in!  |  IP: Logged Tony Bandiera Jr Film God Posts: 3067 From: Moreland Idaho Registered: Apr 2004 posted 10-11-2013 09:32 PM                     RE FP30D's: quote: Stephen Furley They use more relays, which can be a source of reliability problems. And yes that can become a big issue, especially with a changeover operation. Some of you may recall that I had problems with one of the FP-38D's at UC Irvine (pics in the warehouse...) where the machine would often "hang start" at half speed. Cause was bad relays on the speed control PC board. After figuring out how much it would cost to replace all of the relays between the two machines, I just bypassed the speed control board and locked that machine at 24fps. Another reason to leave the FP-20's in place really.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 10-12-2013 02:39 PM                     The place which I'm getting ready for a re-opening at the moment has a pair of FP-30Ds. It has been closed since April 2011, at least as far as the projection equipment is concerned; the auditorium has seen occasional use a few times since then for various things. It was almost all digital for probably the best part of a year before that. In future it will run film, 16 and 35 mm, a few times each year for special events. I've not given them a lot of attention yet, other things have a higher priority at the moment, but there have been quite a few problems which I've found so far, most of them relay-related. I'm going to recommend that somebody runs them up once a week or so when they're not being used, and puts a bit of film through them, does a couple of changeovers etc. With film projectors in future likely to see only occasional use at most theatres which still have them, this could become more of a problem than it has been in the past.  |  IP: Logged Rob J. Buskop Expert Film Handler Posts: 111 From: Rotterdam, the Netherlands Registered: Aug 2005 posted 10-25-2013 04:18 PM                     It's a bit awkward to see some peoples statements that do not illustrate a solid background knowledge on the matter at hand. Tony Bandiera has given the best, and correct answers here. Also, as most FP-30's are equiped by Kinoton afterthought lens turrets that are of poor design and give the operator hardly any room to properly lace a film or clean the film path and the peppermints, whilst their focussing mechanism is also far from ideal.... it makes more sense to retain the fine Fp-20's, especially in an application that requires all kinds of film formats. The original easily exchangeable lens holders (!) with their nice focussing set-up oushines the FP-30's by a long shot. Aperture plates for every conceiveable format, easily inserted! Still even better if you have two of these babies with the original large 8000ft. spoolboxes. Better than the office cabinet look of the fp-30's. But I'm carried away here into my nostagic form and design appreciating mode. anyway, I would'nt even consider changing my FP-20's for the later FP-30. And in case somebody mentiones the rather nice option of the FP-30D of the nice slow starting Papst motor..., well if that's your thing...: There are kits to include these in the FP-20. At this time available for grabs.  |  IP: Logged

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