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Author Topic: question for kinton fp30e Victor Garcia Film Handler Posts: 13 From: Mexico city, Mexico Registered: Aug 2012 posted 09-26-2014 06:23 PM                     where could I get some parts por kinoton fp30E? I sent a e-mail to kinoton factory but they have not responded. thanks  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 09-26-2014 06:34 PM                     Well, Kinoton GmbH went bankrupt in April this year, so that might explain the lack of response. A new "Kinoton" emerged though, one that now primarily focuses on digital solutions. They also took over the service department, so maybe they can still help you getting your parts. Try to give them a call: +49 8989444660. Please note the time difference between Central Europe and Mexico City.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-26-2014 07:45 PM                     Not entirely accurate. Kinoton GmBH did NOT go bankrupt. That entity still exists even. What they chose to do was to cease operations...there is a big difference (particularly if you are a creditor). They have, instead, chosen to liquidate the company over the course of a year. The CEOs are doing the liquidating, not some bank or court appointed entity...another difference in a bankruptcy. But your point of where to obtain parts is accurate. I will say that response times have been slow from KDS with the transition from Kinoton GmBH to Kinoton Digital Solutions.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 09-26-2014 08:11 PM                     You're right, they didn't go actually bankrupt, but decided to liquidate the age old company and start a new one focusing on Digital. Whether or not the old Kinoton GmbH actually still exists, on paper, is probably more of a formality, at least if you're a customer . But as far as I know, the "new Kinoton" should still honor service and warranty calls for their film equipment. A little bit off topic, but I was wondering though, why you would need to liquidate your old company first, before you start refocusing your business on something else, like becoming a Digital Cinema service company in this case.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-27-2014 07:43 AM                     Marcel, Ah ha!. You are missing it. They are not the same company, AT ALL. There are only a few of the same people that were in the old one and are now in the new one. The owners of the old one are NOT part of the new one. They only share that first name (Kinoton) for obvious benefits to the new company. The warranty of projectors sold up until 3/31/14 are still honored by Kinoton GmBH, not the new company. They are SEPARATE entities. If you think about it...it was a VERY classy way of closing the company down. Kinoton was a prestigious manufacturer of film equipment but now in a world with digital. The last few years of digital cinema had shown them that they would not have the world-wide installation base they had previously enjoyed (and depended on). From what I understand, almost all of their digital sales were in Germany (not 100% but such a significant amount). What they could expect for new sales through new-builds and attrition would not be enough to sustain such a small company. In film, they were not dependent on any one company, they could create demand by merely using their imaginations and solving problems better than others or creating products that others could not. In digital, how many people accused them of just repackaging a Barco projector? Nevermind it was just the light engine (certainly a significant portion)...that the lamphouse, lens mount and integration features were their own (they still offered Anamorphics on their projectors when Barco stopped, for example). But in the end...just how much better could Kinoton make a digital projector than everyone else? What could they get it to do that Barco or Christie or NEC couldn't? They were always going to be dependent on TI and Barco for that light engine...that would be the base line for it all. This is a very tiny industry. The new sales for all projectors going forward is going to be measured in the low thousands/year for ALL manufacturers to fight over. How is a company like Kinoton going to somehow come up with a premium projector that somehow would be worth significantly more than standard cinema projectors that both cinema and special venues would want to pay a premium for (or be willing to pay a premium for). If they are just going to make a Barco projector for more money...who would pay for that? No, the sad reality was they literally saw the writing on the wall (or the image projected on the screen) and made a smart business decision. And they did it with class...not leaving their customers out but with notice (every dealer was told of a "last-buy" option to get film projectors) and sustaining the company to ensure warranties would be honored. Fortunately, the new entity, KDS has formed and will continue on support for Kinoton as well as practical. Remember, they will not be buying components in the quantities that a manufacturer would. It may be cost prohibitive to keep some parts active given the near zero sales prospect. Because, let's not kid ourselves, there isn't really a market for film projector/parts. Before people are going to buy new parts for higher-than-before prices...they are going to strip every last one of the used parts they can find first. It will not be an easy road.  |  IP: Logged Marcel Birgelen Film God Posts: 3357 From: Maastricht, Limburg, Netherlands Registered: Feb 2012 posted 09-27-2014 08:19 AM                     quote: Steve Guttag Ah ha!. You are missing it. They are not the same company, AT ALL. There are only a few of the same people that were in the old one and are now in the new one. The owners of the old one are NOT part of the new one. They only share that first name (Kinoton) for obvious benefits to the new company. I know that they're not "Kinoton GmbH" anymore. What I previously didn't know that they actually didn't go bankrupt. I know they informed all customers/dealers they would stop production and allowed them a "last buy". I thought the new company was formed more or less on the remains of the old company after it went bust. Since they decided to do a, let's call it a "voluntary liquidation", I was asking myself why not use the existing "GmbH" to roll out your new products and services. But if there's a major change of ownership, then it's probably best to start in a new entity altogether, without the potential legacy of the past. It's somehow sad they ended up on the wrong side, they were amongst the first to produce production quality digital cinema projectors, together with Barco (although Barco ended up selling it as their product). I've never understood why their digital projectors never found any substantial use outside of Germany, their film gear found broad usage all over the world, maybe they should have sold it without a Barco sticker? Or... maybe they should've sold it all to Barco years back? I guess it wouldn't make sense to build your own light engine, as there is not much to improve on, you're putting a lot of money into research and end up with essential the same product as your competition. Most of the technology is a given thing by TI and the only real competitor in this field as for now is Sony. Maybe if you had your own imaging technology, you could still make a difference, but building your own imaging technology is probably unattainable for anything but the most major players. Regarding "Kinoton Digital Solutions", I wish them any luck they can get, but I'm afraid they are a little late to the party, as the bulk of the digital conversions is over and many of those that converted are still stuck in VPF programs for some years.  |  IP: Logged Victor Garcia Film Handler Posts: 13 From: Mexico city, Mexico Registered: Aug 2012 posted 09-27-2014 05:45 PM                     thanks friends  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-27-2014 07:17 PM                     TI only had three DLP cinema licenses to offer. NEC couldn't even get one until Digital Projection passed on theirs. It isn't surprising that all three DCinema DLP companies already were making DLP projectors in A/V markets. Kinoton never had a chance there. They would have had to really go all out and complete in those areas too. That just wasn't going to happen...that wasn't where their expertise was. The only thing that Kinoton sold in the early DCinema days was the lamphouse/console. With the Mark VII and earlier systems (Series 0, if you will) people were still under the delusion that the conversion would be such that the DLP was going to be a bolt-on to existing systems. Remember where some companies offered (like MIT) to retain the lamphouse or even the rectifier to power a digital lamphouse and new projector? Glory be, you can't make an optical system designed for completely different optics work as efficiently as a system designed from the ground-up with the new optics in mind. When we converted the AFI/Silver from Barco DP50s (Essentially the FP50 console) to modern 4K projectors (Christie CP4230s and CP4220)...the light required to hit SMPTE specs dropped to less than half! And it is even more dramatic...we only were shooting for 12fL back then...now it is 14fL. The digital projectors run smaller lamps than their film counterparts. It is said that Kinoton was the only company that made money on the Series 0 projectors because they sold their lamphouses/consoles for their normal prices. Furthermore, Barco bought more than they sold. The series 0 projectors were a completely loss of money for the Big-3. I'll wager that the series-1 projectors were probably a loss until their last year when Avatar really kicked up sales.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 09-29-2014 03:49 PM                        Victor - we used to be the exclusive dealers for Kinoton in North America, and we still have a lot of parts in stock. You can contact us through the contact page on www.blsi.com, or if you want, you can email me directly at  |  IP: Logged

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