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Author Topic: Running a 1.33 picture with 1.85 lenses/plates Tony L. Hernandez Expert Film Handler Posts: 158 From: Windsor, CO, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 10-31-2014 02:02 AM                     So I just received a fairly new Warner Brothers print of "King Kong" (1933) from HFC Clark to show at my drive in and it just occurred to me it is in 1.33. It doesn't look like it's matted and I do not have 1.33 lenses or plates for my machines here. As lenses/plates/aspect ratios have never been my area of expertise, I was wondering what you all would recommend I do to rectify this situation. It seems like I've heard of some tricks like using my flat 1.85 lenses with my scope 2.35 plates. Over and above the fact I am a stickler for film done right regardless of whether I have an audience of 3 or 3,000, these screenings are guaranteed to bring in several thousands of customers from several different states so I'd like for it to look as good as possible. Had I known it wasn't matted, I probably wouldn't have booked it :-(. Any tips, guys?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-31-2014 03:04 AM                     You could probably get by with using the prime lens only (remove the anamorphic) and the scope plate. It won't be ideal, but it will be much closer than using the 1.85 lens and plate.  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 10-31-2014 03:13 AM                     quote: Tony L. Hernandez It seems like I've heard of some tricks like using my flat 1.85 lenses with my scope 2.35 plates. I believe what you are thinking of is that you can pull the 'prime' lens off of one of your scope adapters and that will give you an image pretty close to the size you need, if you don't have a "1:33" lens. But I think you still need to have the correct aperture plate to really make things 'work' I ran into almost the same problem the other night while preparing a 1:33 print for a halloween show. I had the right lenses, but the theater in question had misplace their aperture plates. I tried using the scope plate, but the image was slightly too tall for the screen, and it bled onto the top & bottom (unmovable) maskings. Fortunately, I had a 1:33 plate in my collection of cinemastuff at home that matched the screen size pretty good, and by sheer luck I came across the theatre's actual aperture plate the following day while looking for something else.  |  IP: Logged Tony L. Hernandez Expert Film Handler Posts: 158 From: Windsor, CO, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 10-31-2014 05:12 AM                     I gave that a try, Brad, and it worked in theory but I'm running into the same issue as Jim with my plates. I am literally cringing while I type this bit just how bad are we talking if I just run this with flat 1.85 lenses/plates? Will the average joe notice? A full set if lenses and plates is next on my wish list...  |  IP: Logged Adam Fraser Master Film Handler Posts: 499 From: Houghton Lake, MI, USA Registered: Dec 2001 posted 10-31-2014 09:02 AM                        As a last resort can you mask your port window to stop the bleed over?  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 10-31-2014 09:25 AM                     Use the scope plate and prime lens, masking the top/bottom at the window. The lens is probably correct, but the specifications for 1.37 aperture plates has less height than for scope. Depending upon the wattage of your xenon lamp, you may be able to get away with masking the scope aperture plate with silver heat tape (the stuff they use to seal heating ducts), which will give you a sharper edge to the masking. I've seen this done at indoor theatres, however the bulb wattage at a drive-in may be too hot for the heat tape. Who or what is HFC Clark? Kong should have come from Warner Brothers.  |  IP: Logged Richard P. May Expert Film Handler Posts: 243 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Jan 2006 posted 10-31-2014 10:02 AM                     HFC Clark is the former Hollywood Film Company. Warner Bros. has them handle their 35mm print library, which was formerly housed at the studio.  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 10-31-2014 10:04 AM                     Thanks Richard.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-31-2014 12:50 PM                     Depending on his current cropping for scope will depend on how acceptable or not acceptable the bleed will be. I would not recommend using tape on the aperture. He could scratch the film and not know it until the next pass.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 10-31-2014 01:15 PM                        If the frames on the print are all 1.37 hard matted, then the 'scope plate and prime lens will do more or less fine. Your audience will see the matte line and rounded corners, but for a one-off show that isn't going to kill them. However, a lot of 1930s shows include shots that were taken with a full aperture silent camera and only duplicated through the intermediate stages by continuous contact printing (no opticals or effects introduced). Therefore, the result will be that these shots are full height on the release print - they look like 'scope frames, only not anamorphic. If you use your scope prime and plate to show those, you'll show unwanted action top and bottom, including, possibly, boom mics. The image size will also appear to change in cuts between matted shots and full height ones. However, that's still a helluva lot better than 1.85. The scope backing lens is also a good ghetto-rigged solution for full-gate silent prints, too, though for those you obviously need to use no aperture plate at all and try to do something to center the image (e.g. take a crowbar to the projector pedestal), or else you'll be cropping some of the left hand side of it. Afterthought: I'm guessing that apart from the opening scenes and those on the boat, most if not all the shots in King Kong will be process shots, and thus step printed and Academy-matted. Weird - I've seen that movie hundreds of times, but all on video (plus once on 16mm): I don't believe that I've ever shown or seen a 35mm print of it. It would be a great one to see a nitrate print of (if any survive in projectable condition), with all that detail in the dark end of the midtones.  |  IP: Logged Mitchell Dvoskin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1869 From: West Milford, NJ, USA Registered: Jan 2001 posted 10-31-2014 02:12 PM                     The last generation of 35mm Kong prints that Warner struck looked incredible. More detail than I had ever seen. I too would be curious to see a nitrate print, but I doubt it could look any better.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-31-2014 02:21 PM                     Any possible way to get a variable magnacom lens to put in front of the prime so the image could be enlarged on the screen if using full aperture?  |  IP: Logged Jack Theakston Master Film Handler Posts: 411 From: New York, USA Registered: Sep 2007 posted 10-31-2014 02:44 PM                     Do you have time enough to have lenses shipped to you? Because I might have the correct size and you're welcome to borrow them.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-31-2014 04:59 PM                     Just leaving the plate out and using black gaffers tape on the port window like Imax does is the best answer to this issue. Mark  |  IP: Logged

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