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Author Topic: Inherent Vice 70mm
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-11-2014 09:26 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How many 70mm Datasat prints were made for Inherent Vice? Where are they playing? Just wondering. I only know about one Arclight theater in the Los Angeles area.

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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 12-12-2014 07:43 AM      Profile for Mark Lensenmayer   Email Mark Lensenmayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Someone from Grand Lake said they were expecting one, but nothing confirmed.

It's very odd how quiet this 70mm release is compared to the huge amount of coverage with Intersteller.

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Lyle Romer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1400
From: Davie, FL, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 12-12-2014 08:21 AM      Profile for Lyle Romer   Email Lyle Romer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Lensenmayer
It's very odd how quiet this 70mm release is compared to the huge amount of coverage with Intersteller.
I think the odd thing is that this is getting a 70mm release at all. According to IMDB, it was shot on 35mm in flat. I can't see a 70mm blow up being that much better (if at all) in image quality than a 4K DLP (if they bothered to scan in 4k).

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-12-2014 08:31 AM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This one kind of went into the "huh, why are they doing that" category. There's nothing very "70mm" about this movie at all. The movie was filmed in 35mm and framed for the 1.85:1 aspect ratio. Such blow-ups to 70mm were common back in the 1980's, but they were made mostly because the 70mm format was the only thing that had high quality 6-track surround sound.

A 5/70mm print will be brighter, more steady and typically better in overall quality than a 4/35mm print, especially the mass produced high speed ones. But even there, if we're just talking about a flat 1.85:1 35mm sourced movie, it might be just as good to show it in a 4K DCP.

There's at least one good thing about this: the 70mm print(s) will give at least one or more projectionists a little more practice handling 70mm.
[Razz]

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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 12-12-2014 11:51 AM      Profile for Mark Lensenmayer   Email Mark Lensenmayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As of 12/12/2014, Arclight Los Angeles has 2 70mm prints (one in the Dome). The other 4 locations are either Digital or 35mm.

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Paul Gordon
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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 - posted 12-12-2014 04:40 PM      Profile for Paul Gordon   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Gordon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The film is playing on 70mm at the Varsity in Toronto starting xmas day.

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Los Angeles, California
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 - posted 12-13-2014 01:06 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
'Inherent Vice' Will Screen in 70mm in Select Theaters. But is Bigger Always Better?

quote:

'Inherent Vice' Will Screen in 70mm in Select Theaters. But is Bigger Always Better?

By Mike Celestino
Indiewire
December 4, 2014 at 12:24PM

The word is out that Paul Thomas Anderson's "Inherent Vice" will be screening in 70mm at select theaters. Below a Hollywood projectionist explains why films shot on smaller formats are occasionally blown up to 70mm.

"Bigger is better." Or at least that's how Thomas Hauerslev, chief editor of the passionately dedicated compendium website in70mm.com, responded when I asked him to describe the appeal of large-format filmmaking. "70mm has a very large negative area. Nearly 3.5 times as much compared to 35mm film… 70mm film is much sharper, which gives a wonderful illusion of reality."

My first experience with 70mm was seeing David Lean's "Lawrence of Arabia" at the Cinerama Dome in Los Angeles over a decade ago, and I can say without hyperbole that it was a glorious, life-changing experience. I had been going to the movies my whole life, but now it felt like I had finally seen a movie. And that played no small part in my pursuing a career as a projectionist.

Of course, "Lawrence of Arabia" was shot on 70mm (technically 65, as the extra five millimeters in width is accounted for by the space necessary to fit the soundtrack on the final print) and designed to be shown via the same medium. But what about movies that are shot on smaller formats, usually 35mm, and then blown up to 70 for exhibition? When I started hearing rumors that auteur filmmaker Paul Thomas Anderson's new comedic detective caper "Inherent Vice" would be going through this process, I couldn't help but wonder why. In my head it didn't make sense, like copying a DVD to a Blu-ray. You aren't going to gain any resolution; it's not possible. So what is to be gained in transferring an existing, perfectly viable 35mm image to a larger, non-native format? And how did this tradition get its start?

Interestingly enough, the impetus was not a visual one, but aural. "The big advantage was offering 6-channel stereophonic sound," said John Sittig, former head of projection for Pacific Theatres. "This is the very reason that 70mm blow-ups were made beginning in 1963 [with "The Cardinal"] and going into the 1990s [with the last regular first-run release being James Cameron's "Titanic" in the winter of 1997]. Until the introduction of Dolby optical stereo Type A in 1974, most theatres played [35mm] film in monaural single channel sound."

As you might guess, it has always been easier and cheaper to shoot on 35, but blowing up to 70 for limited, roadshow-style releases did offer its advantages beyond the upgrade in audio format. Hauerslev said that 70mm also provided "much more light on the screen, vastly better colors, and improved sharpness," in addition to "less visible scratches and dust because the film needs less magnification on the screen compared to 35mm film" and "a very steady image [that] fools the human brain to think this is a ‘window to the world' and not a movie screen."

So what put an end to 70mm blow-up prints as a go-to source of big-event moviegoing? According to Sittig, the same thing that brought about its initial popularity: sound. "'Star Wars' in 1977 really put Dolby stereo on the map, but it was the introduction of Dolby Digital [in 1992 with 'Batman Returns'], DTS ['Jurassic Park,' 1993], and Sony SDDS ['Last Action Hero,' also 1993] with 5.1 stereo that put an end to 70mm blow-ups. Ron Howard photographed "Far and Away" in 70mm in the '90s and there was an occasional limited 70mm blow-up like "Titanic," but very infrequently. Even "Interstellar" [shot both on 35mm and the horizontal-running ultra-high-resolution 70mm IMAX format] is working with only ten 70mm prints. Today very few theatres are equipped with 70mm projectors and have even fewer qualified projectionists to run them."

Paul Thomas Anderson is in a very small group of A-list filmmakers (including the likes of Quentin Tarantino and Christopher Nolan) who are currently digging in their heels in the tug-of-war battle against the digital revolution in movie production and distribution. His 2012 drama "The Master" was shot and released on 70mm film in the midst of an era when it seems like most directors and studios are all too willing to embrace a new, more convenient technology, and immediately abandon what they perceive as the obsolete and cumbersome old.

But PTA (as he's known to his fans) and his ilk also seem to get a visceral thrill out of going against the grain, even when it comes to utilizing the tools of filmmaking's past. "The Master" was shot in a 1.85:1 (or "flat") aspect ratio, which seems antithetical to the very idea of shooting on 70mm, the natural dimensions of which are a much wider 2.21:1. Anderson seemingly chose to shoot on a large format for the tremendous gain in resolution, but then opted to compose his frame by essentially cropping both sides of the image. This counterintuitive (and consequently, unique) practice is so rare that the only other example I could find was "Play Time," a 1967 film by the acclaimed French director Jacques Tati, which was shot on 70 at an aspect ratio of 1.70:1.

Whatever his intent, Paul Thomas Anderson apparently remains dedicated to prolonging the death throes of one of the 20th century's most popular and beloved forms of media. And hopefully, with the coming release of "Inherent Vice" on 70mm, as with "Interstellar," audiences will have an opportunity to reclaim and re-experience the feel of what Thomas Hauerslev refers to as "the Rolls Royce format of Cinema… it has to be seen to be understood."

A thorough list of all 70mm blow-up prints from 1963 to the present is available at http://www.in70mm.com/library/blow_up/index.htm . "Inherent Vice" will be released on 70mm in select theaters beginning Friday, December 12th.



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Stephan Shelley
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: castro valley, CA, usa
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 - posted 12-13-2014 02:45 PM      Profile for Stephan Shelley   Email Stephan Shelley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think it is only New York and LA this early. Grand Lake Oakland is expecting 5/70 of it in Jan. 2015. While some of The Master was shot on 65mm it was 1:85. Studio insisted on special 1:85 70mm plates.

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Connor Wilson
Expert Film Handler

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From: Sterling, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2011


 - posted 12-13-2014 04:43 PM      Profile for Connor Wilson   Email Connor Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The DCP for Inherent Vice happens to be 2K, according to this letter from Deluxe's D-Cinema portal.

There is at least one credit in IMDb for something to do with "digital intermediate", and that is "digital intermediate producer" for Jason Pelham. Is it confirmed that Inherent Vice was finished in DI, or photochemically? Will it have both a DI and analog IP for the digital and film prints respectively, like The Master?

It would be pointless to see a 2K digital intermediate in 70mm. And why wouldn't Warner or PTA let the DCP be in 4K?

Even though it was only shot in 35mm flat, the 70mm trailer for Inherent Vice at Ziegfeld (before Interstellar) looked great. Compared to the softer digital previews that preceded the trailer, the blacks were blacker and it was overall sharper, even with its grain, in film rather than DLP. I wouldn't mind seeing a 70mm blow-up of a movie like this, given the proper care of the projectionist.

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Mike Schulz
Expert Film Handler

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From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: May 2007


 - posted 12-14-2014 04:56 AM      Profile for Mike Schulz   Email Mike Schulz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They have only struck 3 prints so far. Arclight has 2 of them and the 3rd is up in Toronto. It is definitely being masked to 1.85 just like The Master so (in my opinion) it kinda defeats the purpose of a blow-up as there is no resolution gained since it was filmed on 35mm. At least a good portion of The Master was filmed on 65mm so although it was masked to 1.85, you still had the resolution gain and it looked great.

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Edward Havens
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 - posted 12-14-2014 09:19 AM      Profile for Edward Havens   Email Edward Havens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It goes to show how much of an ego certain filmmakers have, as well as the snobbery of some cineasts.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

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From: Annapolis, MD
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 - posted 12-14-2014 10:53 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As someone who has handled MANY MANY 70mm as 35mm (or DCPs for that matter) print that originated in 35mm. It is a VERY rare case (think Ghostbusters) where I wouldn't take the 70mm print over the 35mm print. The exception are "EK" 35mm prints...those are drop-dead gorgeous. However, when one is talking about a release print and the typical quality of film projectors, the 70mm show, even with a 35mm original is going to look substantially better on all but the tiniest of screens. The 70mm IN suffers from the optical enlargement but the 70mm contact release print will be a more faithful dupe of the IN than the 35mm IN to the 35mm Release print. With each generation, you lose a bit so once you get it into the larger format, you slow that down. Then in the projection process, you loose less as you are no longer magnifying the problems of your projection system as much.

So yeah, I'll take a 70mm blow up of a 35mm original over a 35mm release print, just about every time.

In 2014, using the 70mm release format also will keep most of the "me too" people away who really don't do film a film show very well. it isn't sufficient to merely have 35mm equipment and never was. Most 35mm equipment does a mediocre job of showing it. it was built for a price-point and reliability and later, features to minimize labor costs without regard as to how it would affect performance.

Some 70mm machines suffered in this respect too but again, those problems are not magnified as much in 70mm

It is a viable reason to continue to release in 70mm in the digital era. It has the best chance to make the film show worth while. Naturally, I'd hope more people would shoot in the 5/65 format to make the most of it.

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Terry Monohan
Master Film Handler

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 - posted 12-14-2014 11:07 AM      Profile for Terry Monohan   Email Terry Monohan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With only 3 70mm prints made for this limited advance run why did the Pacific Arclight have to get 2 of them? One for the Cinerama Dome was enough, they needed to send the other to NYC. I think when It comes out in a few weeks you will see a few more 70mm prints out in the world. What a shame they did not do wide screen on this new blow up 70mm film. One cinema that probably won't get a new 70mm print is the theatre in Atlanta that wrecked a 70mm print a few months ago with the space film with bad projection people.

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Mark Campbell
Expert Film Handler

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From: Seattle, WA USA
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 - posted 12-14-2014 11:10 AM      Profile for Mark Campbell   Email Mark Campbell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So long as anyone wants to keep 70mm alive, and the craft of presenting 70mm alive, I am all for it and say more power to them. In this new age of unmasked flashy RPX/ETX/Liemax screens, tricking everyone into paying a surcharge and dumbing down expectations, it is nice to know there are filmmakers who actually care about good photography and presentation in properly equipped venues. I have seen many 35mm blowups (not to mention 65mm lensed) films over the years and nothing beats it when done properly. I don't think it is ego or snobbery at all. It is the ability of filmmaker and artist to leverage their status to present their film in the best possible manner because they actually care about their work.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

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 - posted 12-14-2014 12:06 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was chatting to someone who has seen one of the Arclight's prints last week. He wasn't very impressed with it, noting that there were multiple lab splices in the middle of reels, and that the color timing looked clearly off in many of the scenes and shots.

My guess would be that the recent "film is cool" revival has resulted in FotoKem being seriously overworked, given that they are now, to my knowledge, the only remaining lab making 35mm and 70mm release prints in the US (incidentally, I've also just heard that Gulliver Arane in Paris, which AFAIK was the last remaining lab in Europe that still did 65/70, has just gone bankrupt), and that as a result, QC issues are cropping up in their prints. We've had the reel 8A-B DTS/Datasat issue with Interstellar, and the 35mm print of IV we had for AFI had a number of glitches, notably cue dots scribed in the wrong position and SR-D dropouts, too.

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