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Topic: Once Upon a Time in Mexico DVD - Flat?
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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 01-21-2004 07:39 PM
quote:
Please don't tell me they're starting to "crop" or "pan and scan" movies for "Widescreen" (HDTV) sets. That would be horrible.
In this case, it's not quite as bad, since no image data is being lost, just some added at the top and bottom that was there when the movie was shot. Since the DVD is anamorphically encoded, the DVD resolution is being utilized, so it's not like open-matte non-anamorphic 4:3 transfers of flat movies where resolution gets wasted if you want to zoom to 16:9, cropping the top and bottom. Still, I'd prefer the theatrical and DVD aspects to be the same.
quote:
I must ask the question, why are you watching this horrible excuse for a movie?
I haven't watched it yet. I put it in to look briefly at some scenes. I like Johnny Depp. He's really hot. Even a bad movie with Johnny Depp can't be too bad. It's like bad pizza isn't that bad. You know what I mean.
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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 01-21-2004 09:20 PM
Evans wrote:
quote:
The disc is in anamorphic widescreen and the picture is 1.78:1 instead of the scope ratio. It's rare that a movie is put on DVD this way (Austin Powers is the only other one I can think of that was done this way).
You're right that it is rare that a DVD is released in the manner you describe. Nevertheless, there are a quite a few examples of this on DVD and laserdisc. (I've been compiling data for Widescreen Review magazine for a number of years now, so this type of information is easy for me to access and provide comment.)
Once Upon A Time In Mexico is the only HD/24p-originated movie I'm aware of released theatrically in scope that has been reframed for DVD. Others -- Star Wars: Episode II, Jackpot, Session 9, etc. -- are on DVD in their theatrical scope ratio.
As for Super 35 origination, there a quite a number of titles that have been reframed (generally in ratios between 1.78:1 and 2.00:1). Some of the DVDs that come to mind include Austin Powers: International Man Of Mystery (mentioned in the initial post), Top Gun, Star Trek VI (first release AND the new Collector's Edition due next week), Trial & Error, The Governess, The General, Set It Off, Judgment Night (GoodTimes version; new Universal version is in scope ratio), and, recently, The Recruit.
There appear to be a few examples of the reverse: "flat" theatrical prints and "scope" DVD. A Life Less Ordinary and Communion come to mind.
Back in the laserdisc days, there was a time where it seemed that most of the Paramount-produced Super 35 titles would show up on disc in all sorts of "what-the-hell" non-theatrical aspect ratios. Ferris Bueller's Day Off was one that was 1.85:1 on laser; it's in its theatrical scope ratio on DVD. Fox's first laserdisc release of The Abyss was framed somewhere close to 1.85:1.
Super 35 and HD are flexible systems, so it should not suprise anyone that reframing takes place. It has been done with anamorphic-originated films too. In fact, some directors and cinematographers -- John Badham, Vilmos Zsigmond and Vittorio Storaro to name a few-- prefer their scope films to be presented on DVD at about 2.00:1, or more precisely, 2.10:1 in the case of Zsigmond's films. (Oddly, the Zsigmond-shot Playing By Heart -- shown theatrically in scope and originated anamorphic -- is approx. 1.85:1 on DVD.)
In most of these cases of a film being reframed, they are director and/or DP endorsed-supervised, and they'll argue that the reframing is just another creative choice being made. That certainly makes it more difficult for a DVD consumer to claim a mistake has been made, doesn't it?
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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 02-05-2004 05:15 AM
Brad, actually it's HBO that fits everything new into the 1.78 ratio and showtime HD that shows the original aspect ratio.
HBO does show whatever HD prints were made in the OAR at that ratio. It reformats only movies since the last couple of years to the 1.78 ratio to fill the widescreen sets. It's not as bad as I expected since I realized a lot of movies seem to be filmed flat. I like comparing the HD feed with the regular 4:3 feed and the pan and scan is used mostly for true scope movies, but not as much for flat movies.
However Showtime HD, despite sticking to the OAR for their true hidef prints, shows quite a few 4:3 upconverted movies on their hidef channel. This leaves black bars on the sides. Once, they even showed a letterboxed movie upconverted which had bars on all sides.
As far as Once Upon A Time in Mexico, I don't see any problem with Robert ROdriguez refitting the movie for 1.78 ratio as it is not a pan and scan and I am sure he considered that when filming. Kubrick and Cameron do the same too. In fact, I find the opened up mattes pleasing whenever the theatrical version shows a closeup of a person where you cant even see the forehead(closeups seem to be getting tighter and tighter with movies like matrix), but in the full frame version, you get to see the whole head. It's only for movies where the cinematographer deliberately framed everything precisely for the theatrical version , that you get bothered by the different composition even for flat movies.
RECENT ADDITION TO MY ORIGINAL POST:
Oh yeah, I watched the dreadful but hilariously cheesy Showgirls on Showtime HD alternating some scenes with the regular Showtime channel. Guess what, while the HD showed the nudity with more vivid colors and better resolution, the regular channel showed an umatted and not a pan and scan version of this originally 2.35:1 Super 35MM movie. And guess what you get when you have unmatted. There were a few scenes where Elizabeth Berkley's breasts were on display while the HD version only shows her down to the neck. Also many scenes in the HD version, the legs are chopped off while in the full frame version, you can see the entire body. I prefer this composition. So while I will never accept pan and scan, I have become a convert for umatted full frame for certain movies. I noticed the same thing in Officer and a Gentleman. You can see Debra Winger's ass writhing on Gere while she is on top in the unmatted versionl, while the HD version only shows her bare back. Yeah, I know. I got priorities when watching certain movies.
[ 02-11-2004, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: Pravin Ratnam ]
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Pravin Ratnam
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 844
From: Atlanta, GA,USA
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 04-23-2004 02:57 AM
Borrowed this dvd from a friend. While I was mixed about the movie when I reviewed this in the past, I must say this DVD is worth renting for the commentary and making of movie featurette alone. And a lot of things get cleared up
1) The movie flow sucks, and characters like the Willem Dafoe one, are confusing to follow, not because of the one year delay between the shoot and editing as I thought last year. The rushed screenplay is to blame. Robert goes on and on about various techniques used, but pretty much admits that the screenplay was a rush job. Stupid move. He was worried more about the logistics of filming than writing the screenplay itself. About the only role he put some thought into was the Depp character.
2) I dont think RR will ever film with film again. He pretty much seems to have been burnt out by the Desperado and Spy Kids 1 shoots. He does not really seem interested in getting the most sophisticated look from a movie. He would rather shoot a movie fast with total control. So there goes my hope that he would one day rise to the next level and make a great epic movie because he wants to do everything himself. While he is a very impressive talent, there is only so much one can do.
3) I am impressed with the way he used HiDef and now, I am less prejudiced. While I am skeptical of his claim that he tested hidef cameras for a week on Spy Kids1 and it was much superior to nearly identical footage captured on film cameras that same week, I do find it to be something that TV movies(especially syndicated action shows) could use to save money without sacrificing much in the way of video quality. The film school featurette was pretty inspiring for gonzo filmmaker wannabes. Some of the flesh tones problems obvious in the theater are minimized on the DVD format. However, there is a certain dullness to the look in Attack fo the Clones and Once upon a time in Mexico.
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