Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Star Wars Ep IV audio mixing errors

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Community » The Afterlife » Star Wars Ep IV audio mixing errors (Page 1)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3

Author

Topic: Star Wars Ep IV audio mixing errors

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-20-2004 06:57 PM

I just read some disappointing news at The Digital Bits website, regarding their review of the Star Wars Trilogy special edition DVD box set. Apparently the first film (Episode IV) has some really serious audio mixing errors, which The Digital Bits says fully warrants a disc repressing and exchange. Here's the rundown of the errors from their website:

quote:

1) The familiar Force theme trumpet fanfare that used to play right after Red Leader says: "This is it!" and just as the X-wings start diving towards the Death Star's surface has been dialed back in volume so that it's almost inaudible - it's almost completely buried in the surround mix.

2) The audio quality varies wildly as Tarkin says the line: "You would prefer another target, a military target? Then name the system." - almost as if the master sound element was damaged. It's very distracting.

3) Possibly most critically, John Williams' entire score for the film has been flipped in the rear channels, so that what should be the left rear channel is playing from the right rear channel (and vise versa). What this means is that the rear channels don't match the front channels - instruments heard from the front right channel come from the left rear instead of the right rear. Again, this is very distracting once you notice it.

These problems are certainly severe enough in our opinion to merit a repressing/exchange of the disc. We're waiting to hear back from Lucasfilm on this issue and we'll update this review with the details as soon as we do.]

| IP: Logged

Ron Yost
Master Film Handler

Posts: 344
From: Paso Robles, CA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 09-20-2004 09:31 PM

Thanks a lot, Bobby! I now have even -more- reason to rent it first tomorrow to see how annoying the errors and changes are before laying out the cash and buying it. Glad I didn't preorder! [Eek!]

It is disappointing, tho. [Frown]

Ron Yost

| IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-20-2004 10:34 PM

There already has been a good amount of fan anger for over a week now about the audio mixing errors, particularly with regard to John Williams' Oscar-winning score.

I just read a long list of changes cataloged by a forum moderator at a John Williams fan 'blog (www.jwfan.net).

What gets on my nerves about this deal is the only way I'm sure I would ever get a corrected disc in a dependable manner is if I bought the screwed up box set and mailed in the first disc for a fixed copy.

There are still defective copies of the "Back to the Future" DVD trilogy on store shelves. There are even DTS fans getting stuck with weak-bass versions of "Jurassic Park" still in existence. I had to wait about 8 weeks for my fixed DTS version of JP to arrive in the mail. I haven't bothered to send in my defective discs of BTTF II and III yet. I probably would have made the exchange immediately if the first BTTF film had the matte framing error very noticeable in the two sequels.

It's just a damned pisser. Seven years overdue to the DVD format and the "Star Wars" trilogy arrives loaded with really questionable revisions and outright mistakes.

Lots of folks hate the change made to ROTJ where Hayden Christiansen is added into the end shot with Yoda and Alec Guiness. The very worst change made, IMHO, is the one with the emporer and his spoiler dialog. He tells Vader in this scene that not only did Skywalker blow up the Death Star, but that he is also Vader's son. That totally blows the surprise intended for the audience when Vader laid the truth onto Luke. I guess Lucas cares more about people watching these films in supposed numerical order rather than the order of time in which the films were released. Me? I prefer the latter.

| IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 09-21-2004 12:26 AM

So how do DVD errors like this even occur? Doesn't anyone actually watch the finished DVD before it is packaged and shipped? Why not?

| IP: Logged

Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999

posted 09-21-2004 06:57 AM

You guys are aware that some audio was changed between the 1977 release, and the release when Episode IV was added to the titles?

It's George's Movie. He can screw it up all he wants.

I dislike 'new and improved' movies.

| IP: Logged

Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 09-21-2004 02:53 PM

I've been listening to Empire play here at work, and I've noticed several audio changes just by letting it play in the background. Han's line "I dunno how we're gonna get outta this one" right before the Falcon gets hit by an asteroid has been tweaked awkwardly for example.

But there have also been a couple of positive changes too. For example, when Luke says "I feel like..." Yoda says "Feel like what?" and Luke spins around, Yoda's "AH!" is back. It was removed for the Special Edition. That example is something that illustrates how sound effects and dialoge can have a musical rhythm to them, and when that "AH!" was removed, it totally screwed up the rhythm of that scene for me when I listened to it. I'm glad it's back.

I know they aren't errors, but the first is definitely awkward the way it sounds now... at least it is to me. The 2nd WAS awkward, but it sounds better now. I could go on and on, but I'll spare everyone of my "nit-pickiness"... for now anyway. [Wink]

| IP: Logged

Dean Kollet
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Florida State University
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 09-21-2004 03:35 PM

I read an interview given by Carie Fisher (sp?)in my Home Theatre magazine about these DVDs, and I can honestly say I'm not into Lucas like I used to be. He even said that he didn't have a 35mm projector anymore, and that Digtal is this, Digital is that. I'm seen a print of Shrek 2, Filmguarded after 3 straight months of 4-5 shows a day...and it looks PRISTINE.

...moron

| IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 09-21-2004 05:39 PM

Aside from the deliberate audio changes made through all 3 DVDs, the fact still stands that the music score on the original "Star Wars" film (or Episode IV if you prefer) was botched. It is flat out a total mistake for the score to be flipped backwards in the surround channels. That error needs to be corrected and the disc recalled and replaced.

| IP: Logged

Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 09-21-2004 11:56 PM

Actually, that quote from Bits about where the music dies in the assault on the Death Star is slightly wrong. It is the musical cue after Red Leader says, "I'm gonna cut across their axis and try and control their fire." The music at that point has ALWAYS hit a crescendo...even more evident when just listening to the soundtrack on CD. Either way, I HATED how that is either changed or botched.

As for the flipped surrounds, I didn't notice it upon my first viewing but probably will if I view it again. If this really is the case, big mistake and an exchange should be offered.

One thing I absolutely loved was how Vader's voice is cleaned up very well in ANH. It really made him more menacing, which is the intention.

Finally, I think we will eventually get the original versions in some form, sometime after Episode III, especially if their is an outcry over these versions of the film.

AJG

| IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 09-22-2004 12:13 AM

How could the music in the surround channels be flipped when the movie had mono surround originally? Didn't it? And if it were split surround on 70mm, how the hell would any home viewer notice the switch on DVD 10 billion years later? I don't recall hearing much, if any music in the surrounds in the Special Editions, and I have the Dolby Digital LaserDiscs as reference.

| IP: Logged

Aaron Garman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: Toledo, OH USA
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 09-22-2004 07:07 AM

I too have the 97 LD release, so I did a little comparison of a couple scenes at the end. The surround channels are flipped for sure during the throne scene, but you have to listen really closely to hear it. It is weird, but only weird when comparing it to the 97 release. In fact, based on my early observations, the 97 mix seemed more balanced than this new mix on DVD, which at times seems a little harsh. I'm going to check some more scenes later to test this theory. Actually, I know Gary Rydstrom did the mix or at least had a hand in it in 1997, does anyone know if he did for the new DVD? Could this account for the possible harshness?

Of course, this is all in reference to A New Hope.

AJG

| IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-22-2004 09:45 AM

What was the sound format for the original 70mm releases of Episodes IV-VI? I would have assumed that they were format 42 (L/C/R/S/LFE/LFE), but is it possible that they had split surrounds (format 43)?

The original 35mm prints would have been matrixed Dolby A (possibly dual-inventory with mono).

| IP: Logged

Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 09-22-2004 10:28 AM

quote: Scott Norwood
(possibly dual-inventory with mono).

At that time studios were releasing 35mm prints with a dual-inventory (Dolby Stereo or mono)

| IP: Logged

Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 09-22-2004 01:43 PM

I heard that the mono prints had some minor differences in some dialogue from the stereo prints too- I don't buy any movies that have been altered so needless to say I won't be getting this DVD set.
They could have used the seamless-branching feature to include different versions of the movies, and included the original matrix stereo, mono, 70mm, and "new-and-improved" digital mixes.

| IP: Logged

Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 09-22-2004 03:07 PM

quote: Scott Norwood
What was the sound format for the original 70mm releases of Episodes IV-VI? I would have assumed that they were format 42 (L/C/R/S/LFE/LFE), but is it possible that they had split surrounds (format 43)?

No. You are right about the channel configuration with the baby booms. Of course, a mono surround mix can also be somewhat directional if you mix signals into the surround and pan them across the front channels. In a later remix for stereo surrounds, those intended effects can be enhanced by using the split surround possibilities. But I don't remember any music in the surround channel either back in the old days - although it is obviously a long time ago...

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.