|
|
 
|
|
Author
|
Topic: SDDS 8 on the newer HD-DVD
|
Andy Summers
Master Film Handler
Posts: 397
From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted 07-13-2005 01:21 PM
Is it possible to have SDDS 8 on the newer HD-DVD format as Dolby and DTS are getting a little long in the tooth, time for a new visual experience and yes lets have all three sound formats to select for the movie of the night.
SDDS as been around now since 1993, the same time DTS jumped onto the six-track digital band wagon, the use of five-screen channels in the home cinema will get rave reviews, that’s if Sony corporation what to change there minds on this as they said about 10 years ago there about, "we well never release this to the consumer market", just like Yamaha said no to THX licensing around 14 years ago they suddenly changed there tune and now THX is all over the mid and top price range models.
So what do you all think about SDDS 8 being implanted onto HD-DVD as this is a true 7.1 format and think about it films like the Todd-Ao five screen films like “The Sound of Music” and 2001: A Space odyssey can all get resurrected, and talking about 2001 on DVD that is not the proper sounding version, where the hell is all the dialogue panning gone too.
Oh yes they made total mess of it, thank god I still have the Laserdisc version NTSC, with all the dialogue panning intact, all I can say is, can you just imagine a donkey doing sound mixing at the desk, and films need to be kept in the same way as we remember them intact, and if there is one word I don’t what to hear, that’s the word impossible….
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Stephen Furley
Film God
Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002
|
posted 07-13-2005 02:21 PM
The normal DVD Video standard actually allows for audio streams to be in five basic formats: Dolby Digital (AC3), DTS, Linear PCM, MPEG layer 2 and SDDS. Sony however has never implemented SDDS in any home format, and seems highly unlikely to do so now. I'm not sure if the standard permitted eight channels for SDDS, but since it was never implemented, with any number of channels, it matters little.
Given the sort of screen size that people are likely to have at home, the benefits of going to five screen channels would be minimal, but if it did happen I think it would be more likely to come via some enhanced version of DTS, rather than SDDS.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Andy Summers
Master Film Handler
Posts: 397
From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted 07-13-2005 02:35 PM
Thank you very much chaps, that was kinder like the way I thought it may go, but remember change is progress and if HD-DVD is going to break new grounds it really better get its act together….
Otherwise what is the point, if it happens then so be it.
Yes lets just call it SDDS as there are two versions,
Did you know you can Matrix the SDDS five-screen in the home its all in the mix within left and centre channels and the right and centre two matching Dolby pro-logic decoders and five-matching fronts and bingo, it does work to a degree, but there is only a few db in crosstalk, give it go, I’m waiting for the chance to come by 2 more JBL control 5 to place up front along with more EQ’s and amps….
But would like to see the SDDS logo on newer generation AVR with THX shorted….
That is very, very true and have been since 1927 Al Jolson The Jazz singer
But it will not effect me I can adapt to this, I will make it my mission…
SDDS not sure if I can since it on the horizon, delicious if they do….
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 07-13-2005 03:33 PM
quote: Andy Summers
Is it possible to have SDDS 8 on the newer HD-DVD format as Dolby and DTS are getting a little long in the tooth, time for a new visual experience and yes lets have all three sound formats to select for the movie of the night.
SDDS is not a provisional format in either of the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray specifications. However, Dolby Digital and DTS are both fully supported. The players will be able to play back audio in either format without the need of being attached to a home theater system or some other separate type of decoder.
"Long in the tooth" is a funny description. Many in this forum might say that SDDS itself has grown that way. First, very few movies fully utilized the SDDS-8 format. Worse, most theaters with SDDS installed are wired for 5.1, not 7.1. Not many projectionists like the format since its tracks can tend to degrade faster or be misprinted than DD or DTS. There's been a good deal of complaints about SDDS hardware. The systems aren't being installed in new theaters very often anymore. It's mostly Dolby Digital by way of a CP-650. Or you'll get a mix of Dolby and DTS in a new cineplex. Even AMC, who originally was one of the biggest supporters of SDDS, has lately been installing more Dolby CP650 systems with Dolby Digital into new theaters. SDDS has never really kept pace with DTS either. In recent years I've noticed how some studios, such as Fox, have been dropping SDDS off a lot of newer movie releases.
The long term trend in theatrical audio is uncompressed or losslessly compressed high resolution audio. DTS' new XD-10 player can deliver those things -and is potentially scaleable well beyond 8 channels. A standard XD-10 unit is capable of 8 channels right out of the box. You still have the problem of studios needing to actually release 8 channel or higher content but at least the hardware is getting in place to support such things.
DTS' home theater format can also support up to 8 channels of audio. However, the current DTS-ES implementation in a great deal of home theater products maxes out at 6.1. The easiest way to add the eighth channel would be by way of a second subwoofer effects channel --making it a 6.2 variation. I'm not sure if there's anywhere near enough interest in the market for a ".2" LFE format. But there is a good number of 70mm releases with stereo "baby boom" audio. If formats like the 10.2 configuration guys like Tomlinson Holman have promoted can get anywhere, a DTS 6.2 home format might work better for that as well.
Data real estate on at least the first generation or two of HD-DVD or BD-DVD discs is going to be pretty cramped. You also have the overhead limits on how much data can be transferred per second (bandwidth) in the optical disc player. That's going to make it pretty tough for any video format in the near future to feature high resolution surround audio without lossy data compression. I certainly don't see anything like that happening from an optical disc based format anytime very soon.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Andy Summers
Master Film Handler
Posts: 397
From: Bournemouth Dorset United kingdom
Registered: Jun 2005
|
posted 07-13-2005 04:15 PM
Thank you
That totally blew me away Bobby, dame good bit of text writing, I heard from another projectionist about the SDDS format in the cinema degrading quality control over the format will if DTS can hold 8 channels, that sounds great.
But five in front five in front, because I love it, let me rephrase that I like it to be five and if not then I’ll matrix it out of the fronts.
And what about height surround and bottom surround, sound is in 3-D 1-D up & down 2-D left & right 3-D forwards & backwards, though I have only done a little audio mixing at collage I like to come up with so many concepts.
And what about the fount sound that moves from the bottom to the middle to the top of the screen that, I’m not talking about using active X-over units, but they will come into the set-up, 9 channel front, boy that will give the mixers a challenge or too…
And for the newer surrounds 7 channels all discrete and with the LFE .1or .2 this will bring it to 18 channels, well maybe in the very far future, crazy sounding idea I know, but like my chief projectionist said to me…
“In this industry you have to think like a projectionist!”
| IP: Logged
|
|
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."
Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
|
posted 07-13-2005 06:29 PM
For at least the next few years, just about every feature released will feature 5.1 channel audio. There doesn't seem to be much incentive for studios to go beyond that. At least, they're not utilizing the technology available.
It would be pretty easy to configure a commercial theater to play movies with 10.2 channel audio. A DTS-XD10 unit can be upgraded to handle this. My understanding is if you buy enough expansion cards you can upgrade a DTS-XD10 to play 24 channel audio. Of course, such an animal would be used only in a custom design special venue theater or amusement park ride. Even using standard equipment, a 10.2 presentation is easily possible. You can wire up two 5.1 audio racks with DTS, mount the two time code readers on a single 35mm (or 70mm) projector, adjust the sync and you'll be set. Two DTS discs playing simultaneously would divide the 10.2 mix. The real battle is getting the movie studio to create the mix with all those extra channels.
The DTS XD-10 started shipping a couple years ago, just before Universal's "Hulk" hit theaters. When that movie was released with a standard 5.1 mix it killed any near term hopes I had that movie studios would start making efforts to move past the 5.1 standard. Universal is an important partner with DTS. The studio heavily supported the introduction of DTS with "Jurassic Park," getting the system into hundreds of theaters at the format's launch. It would have only made sense for the studio to show some support for the newest DTS machine and its much more advanced capabilities. But it didn't happen.
A very good case can be made that commercial theaters, especially really large ones, would benefit from having 8, 10 or more channels of audio in a sound track. Regardless of arguments, they're sticking with 5.1. I think the only way how 8, 10 or higher channel counts will be deployed in commercial theaters is if it happens as part of a "digital cinema" video projection system installation.
I think it is quite a bit more difficult to justify 5 screen channels or more experimental items like ceiling mounted over head surround speakers in a home environment. Lots of home theater fans have wives who place the appearance of the living room or den much higher in importance than function of home theater hardware. I have married friends who had to buy TVs and home theater equipment to fit the furniture their wives had picked.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
It may actually take pressure from other industries to get channel counts higher in movies. Now that 5.1 audio has moved into computer games, music mixing and other multimedia, perhaps advances in those areas may force the movies themselves to catch up. The AAC audio format, which Dolby helps distribute, can store as much as 48 channels or even more into a single AAC data stream. This kind of capability may give arise to new types of entertainment and expression that traditional movies and music haven't yet explored. Hollywood may find itself having to play catch-up to other types of entertainment in the future.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
Printer-friendly view of this topic