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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Topic: 1080P screens
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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today
Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-24-2005 09:22 PM
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Actually 1080P is the ultimate destination for DTV.
Bullshit. Try 7680 x 4320, or 4320p. Hell yeah. 1080p sucks ass.
quote: Source
Corporation (NHK) has demonstrated a live relay of a 4x x 8k resolution Super Hi-Vision program connecting a 260-km distance by a fiberoptic network.
NHK's next-generation broadcasting system can convey the sensation of reality to viewers. Super Hi-Vision is the provisional format for that purpose, achieving 7680 x 4320 pixels.
It already demonstrated the images of Super Hi-Vision at the 2005 World Exposition, Aichi, Japan, held from March to September in Aichi this year using a preliminary prepared video footage.
NHK developed a Super Hi-Vision camera equipped with 8 megapixel CCD image sensors that can take 4k x 8k images. In the field test, it sent the two cameras to a sea park and sent baseband signals without image compression using an fiberoptic network formed by multiple network companies.
The signal of the total 24 gigabits per second was divided into 161.5 Gbps HD-SDI signals to sent using the DWDM (dense wavelength division multiplex) method.
"Super Hi-Vision has huge information and was difficult to transmit. Using 16 waves on optic fiber, we succeeded a live relay over a long distance. This means that Super Hi-Vision proved the possibility of being a future TV broadcasting technology," said Mikio Maeda, senior research engineer of the laboratory.
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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today
Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-25-2005 02:39 AM
If it is using an interlaced signal, it is not 1080p. "P" stands for progressive. There is absolutely nothing interlaced about it. Not one damned thing. Otherwise it is simply "i". My TV does 1080i, and only one field is shown at any given moment in time, just like with 480i. It would simply be wrong to show two fields at the same time in a progressive fashion. There would be combing artifacts like you wouldn't believe. If I get close during a broadcast or other 1080i source being played through my TV, I can see it flickering back and forth as it interlaces. That's what interlacing does. Interlace. When my TV displays 480p, there is no flicker. It displays 480p as a true progressive signal. Progressive, no flicker beyond the normal 60Hz nonsense (and they have 100Hz TVs in Europe, those assholes, I want 120Hz TVs here NOW). If anyone is claiming 1080p and actually using 1080i to achieve their results, then they suck much ass. 720p also is not interlaced. The Perfect Vision must be a shitty magazine. They sound quite flawed and I highly recommend urinating on the magazine in a supermarket parking lot, preferably Albertson's.
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David Stambaugh
Film God
Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 11-25-2005 10:24 AM
I said "frames" when I should have said "fields". 2 fields = 1 frame. Their claim is that some HDTVs take 1 interlaced field and uprez it to make a frame out of it, rather than combining 2 complete fields to make a frame. They ran their findings by the TV makers whose sets supposedly do this and they confirmed it (all LG sets do it for example). Supposedly there's a definitive test and it's easy to demonstrate. I never heard of it before I read this article though. I'll see if I can dig up the magazine and quote it more accurately.
EDIT: OK, here's some of what they say. The Perfect Vision, December 2005, Issue #64, Page 14, "HDTV Insider News", author is Gary Merson. I'm paraphrasing, accurately, but condensing it.
HDTV's 1080i signals are sent out interlaced with 540 odd-numbered lines and 540 even-numbered lines needed to complete the full 1080-line frame. Many TV makers opt to upconvert one 540-line field to the TV's native resolution, 720, 768, or 1080. The other field is discarded. This is called "bobbing". Using both fields to make a full frame is called "weaving". "Bobbing" throws away half the 1080 lines in a 1080i HDTV broadcast.
Farouda/Genesis chipsets prior to the current version use "bobbing". None of the 2004 or earlier TVs using their chipsets use "weaving".
All Samsung LCD and plasma sets were found to "weave". All Samsung DLP sets were found to "bob".
Out of 53 sets tested, 23 "weaved" (passed) and 30 "bobbed" (failed).
Manufacturers were contacted and all concurred with the methodology and findings, even companies whose own sets failed.
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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!
Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 11-25-2005 12:43 PM
The same issue occurs with 480p DVD players. Some players use the flags imbedded within the data stream to tell whether to bob or weave when putting the progressive signal together. The problem is many authoring houses don't bother to set the flags correctly. What's worse, sometimes individual titles are digitized scene-by-scene or reel-by-reel, sometimes interlaced and sometimes progressive. Add that to incorrectly set flags and you get the occasional rough transistions between scenes and horizontal flagging and tearing of moving objects within scenes. This is something that currently plagues all of the cheaper 480p DVD players since it is cheaper to simply read the data flags when setting up for bob or weave. They are vulnerable to authoring house screw ups.
The more expensive players use scan cadence reading to make the bob vs. weave decision. This is a more expensive process since it reads every frame and decides on a frame-by-frame basis which technique to use.
I imagine similar issues will crop up as we transision to the new HD discs.
BTW, this month the senate voted to set the DTV transision date to 7 April 2009. The house voted to set the date to 31 December 2008. They will now hammer out the final date in conference committee. So, the date will soon become law, no longer merely a suggestion by the FCC. Broadcast of NTSC will cease on that date, freeing up the present VHF and UHF spectrum to be auctioned off and thus raise more money for federal use. Because of the amount of money involved I wouldn't count on seeing this date slip too many more times.
Also, just this week the FCC has set 1 April 2007, 16 months from now, for all new TV sets to have built-in ATSC tuners. This also applies to any other device that receives OTA signals. The only exemption is for monitors that don't have any tuning capability at all.
Of course there will be lots of old analog sets still out there, but hopefully the new set-top digital converter boxes won't be too expensive. Progress.
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Not to mention the broadcasters are cheating on the bandwidth, bigtime.
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