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Author Topic: Film Quality on TV
Phil Blake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 558
From: esperance western australia
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 03-04-2006 10:57 PM      Profile for Phil Blake   Author's Homepage   Email Phil Blake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know very little about telecine stuff etc.
I have been curious as to how real old films can be televised with such quality,no scratches or dust etc .
Even our brand new release prints have the old blemish how Do they "screen out" the blemishes for tv broadcast?

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 03-05-2006 02:41 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll give this a try. It'll be very generic since I haven't done this kind of work in a long long time.

First, a survey is taken to locate the best prints or elements to use for a transfer session. The chosen element is cleaned and any splices checked. The element can be negative or positive, oneg, IP, IN, or release print. Today's telecines can handle any of these.

Telecines these days use either digital imagers or in some cases flying spot scanners to read the images. I don't think anyone still uses the old camera/projector equipped film chains anymore. Even flying spot scanners are passe now.

Most of the telecines I've seen have PTRs mounted on the feed side and I guess some machines can be equipped with an actual wet-gate to help physically hide scratches.

The telecine does not use an intermittent movement - the film moves through the machine at a constant rate just like tape in a tape machine. That way the machine can handle things like damaged or missing perfs. The scanner raster or imager read pattern changes with the selected linear speed of the film to scan each frame properly as it passes through. Film weave can be held to extremely tight tolerances by scanning the perfs and aligning the images to them. Any remaining weave is probably on the film element itself. Camera weave or image distortion due to film shrinkage can be taken out too during later processing by digitally resizing each frame to some reference frame.

Once the image has been digitally stored on tape or disc drive, the electronic image manipulation starts. To take out any remaining scratches and dirt a DVNR (Digital Video Noise Reduction) device can be used. Care must be taken to not overuse DVNR since certain image artifacts can result. It certainly is not a case of "if a little is good than a lot is better."

Color correction and timing can be adjusted here as well. Generally there are controls for black level, gamma (mid-greys), and gain or white level for each color of RGB or YCM plus master black level, master gamma, and master gain. Usually the machine is set up to render a photographed grey card or chip chart as neutral across the entire range of film density from black to white with the mid-grey level positioned as desired to optimally place the film's D log E curve within the 0 (or 7.5) to 100 IRE video signal range. For instance the mid-grey or gamma level can be set a little lower to help reduce noise in the blacks, or set a little higher to help reveal more picture information in the blacks (black stretch).

By using color matrixing to do any further color adjustment, the grey scale alignment of the machine does not need to be touched, though many colorists do paint each shot using the RGB gains, gammas, and blacks instead of a matrix. On things like video dailies (telecined prints, not the film camera's video tap), I'm not sure if they paint each printed take. For dailies I imagine they do the video equivalent of what the labs call a one-light pass. Set it once and let it fly.

Additional edge and detail enhancement, and additional noise reduction can be done here as well. Again, care must be taken to not use too much enhancement, since that can result in enhanced film grain or very "busy" unnatural looking edges in the image. Such images would also be very hard to digitally compress during DVD authoring.

The intermediate results of all this work can be saved digitally at any time during each session, these days usually in some digital component video format.

Once all of the signal processing is completed, the resulting component video master can be prepped for DVD compression and authoring. The component video master can also be encoded to any of the composite video formats still in wide use.

With proper combing or pre-filtering of the signal prior to encoding, many of the artifacts typically associated with composite video signals like dot crawl, moire, and cross-color effects can be greatly reduced or eliminated. Companies like Vistek, Accom, and Faroudja all made sophisticated encoders that combed very precisely. It's expensive to encode this way, but it pays off with great images even on TVs or monitors equipped with the worst composite signal decoding.

Combing to eliminate composite signal artifacts can be done during decoding in the display, but it is very expensive to do so and therefore simply not done in most consumer displays.

Speaking of displays, the monitors used during the entire transfer process are really something to see. The 19" Sony match monitors I used to work with were wonderful, flat to 10MHz even in the corners with phosphers that produced great grey scales. The Barco and Ikegami match monitors were very good too, but I really liked the Sony stuff. We're talking professional match monitors here ($7000 for a 19" rackmount Sony back in the day), not the consumer stuff. Sony's consumer Trinitron displays were OK but I never liked their phosphors, especially their red which was rather orange instead of a true red.

Anyway this is all very generic I know, but that's the film transfer process in a nutshell.

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Phil Blake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 558
From: esperance western australia
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 03-07-2006 01:47 AM      Profile for Phil Blake   Author's Homepage   Email Phil Blake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks paul , you have taken the time to explain this well, much appreciated.
Buy you a beer one day.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-07-2006 08:34 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is a technical paper that describes the "workflow" in detail:

http://www.laserpacific.com/pdf/Post_Production2.pdf

quote:
The New Post Production
Workflow: Today and Tomorrow, by Leon Silverman
LaserPacific Media Corporation

Maintaining pristine images involves careful film handling, frequent film cleaning with solvent cleaners or PTRs, wet-gate printing, telecines/scanners with diffuse illumination (e.g., the Spirit DataCine), and "dust-busting" the digitized image.

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 03-07-2006 03:07 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used to run a threesome of RCA TK-27 telecine cameras. Our greatest achievements were done by weekly alignments of the camera tubes. I could see the grain in 16mm prints at any time. Color was also a top priority, also. This was back when 90% of the programming and commercial spots were on film. Our station made quite a bit of $$$ doing film-to-tape transfers during our off-air time. The projectors were RCA TP-66's, one of the best telecine projectors out there. (The Eastman 25's were better, but we couldn't get them in time.

Bruce

Owner of one of the previously mentioned TK-27's, with 8 sets of new tubes, and 2 of the TP-66's. I love being in the right place on trash day!!!

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-07-2006 05:36 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are a lot of things that can be done to correct problems durring the film to tape transfer, and afterward. It all dependes on how much money, and time, you have.

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Jason M Miller
Master Film Handler

Posts: 284
From: Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted 03-15-2006 12:15 AM      Profile for Jason M Miller   Email Jason M Miller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul: about how long does that whole process take?

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 03-15-2006 11:40 AM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How much money do you have? [Big Grin]

Anywhere from overnight to several weeks for the actual transfers, depending on what needs to be done, and to what standards, plus scheduling of the transfer suite, the colorist, and the production personnel, usually the director and/or the DP. Things like video dailies can be done overnight while things like the remastering of a major motion picture can take several days during the actual transfer sessions, painstakingly going over the color timing and other things shot by shot.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-16-2006 09:39 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Paul Mayer
First, a survey is taken to locate the best prints or elements to use for a transfer session.
Substitute 'best' for 'cheapest' in some cases. Faced with the choice of obtaining a graded-for-TK IP of a six-figure restoration from one of the world's leading archives, or a shagged out umpteenth generation 16mm Cinecolor dupe which has already been transferred on an Elmo several times and is scratched to buggery, many clients on tight budgets will go for the latter.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 03-16-2006 12:06 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sad, isn't it?

Though not completely buggered, the print used for the LD release of My Name is Nobody has a very nice vertical green emulsion scratch right down the middle on some of its reels. Couldn't believe it the first time I saw that. But it was a bargain-priced gatefold-jacket release (The Appaloosa was the other title in that pair) so I guess that was the most convenient surviving source they had and they weren't willing to spend the money to go through and hide that scratch.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-16-2006 12:48 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's why I'm now very cagey about who I buy DVDs from. I find that some labels you can trust (e.g. Warner Home Video, which have produced some stunning transfers of their '30s & '40s stuff), others are variable - read a review or rent before buying - but if it's a label you don't recognise, the chances are high that you'll be buying a dupey, worn-out 16mm transferred one-light on an Elmo. This is even the case if the packaging is high-class and glossy. You just wish they'd follow Warners' lead and spend the money where it matters - relatively simple packaging, not that much in the way of extras (usually just a trailer and subtitles, but sometimes a celebrity or academic commentary track if it's a well-known title and sales are likely to justify it) but a decent transfer from a nice source element.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-16-2006 12:51 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Paul Mayer
Though not completely buggered, the print used for the LD release of My Name is Nobody has a very nice vertical green emulsion scratch right down the middle on some of its reels.
A green (magenta dye layer damage) scratch would almost certainly indicate that that transfer was from a print, rather than a pre-print master. Print film has the magenta dye layer as the topmost imaging layer, whereas most other films have the yellow dye layer on top.

Most high quality feature film transfers today are made from a master positive or duplicate negative, rather than a print.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 03-16-2006 02:46 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: John Pytlak
Print film has the magenta dye layer as the topmost imaging layer, whereas most other films have the yellow dye layer on top.

John, just as a matter of interest, why?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-16-2006 03:33 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
About 60% of our visual information comes from in the green portion of the spectrum. So for maximum perceived sharpness, you want the green sensitive layer (magenta dye) on top. Only about 10% of our visual information is in the blue portion of the spectrum, so its position in the emulsion layers is relatively unimportant.

In a color camera film, the sensitivity to red, green, and blue light (white light) is essentially equal. All silver halide film emulsions have a "native" sensitivity to UV and blue light, so a yellow filter layer is needed so the green and red sensitive emulsions don't get exposed by blue light. Therefore, the unfiltered blue-sensitive layer must be on top, with a yellow filter layer underneath to minimize blue light exposure of the red and green sensitive emulsions.

Color print film is exposed by a low color temperature (yellowish) light, and an orange-colored negative. So the blue sensitive layer has to be quite fast compared to the red and green. The speed difference is so great that there is no need to use a yellow filter layer to avoid unwanted blue exposure of the red and green sensitive layers. So you can put the green sensitive layer at the top of the emulsion pack, where it can get the sharpest image during printing. And the blue sensitive layer can be at the bottom, since any sharpness loss due to light scatter is less important.

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