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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » The Afterlife   » DVD and 35mm Film Projection (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3   
Author Topic: DVD and 35mm Film Projection
Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

- posted 03-12-2006 11:25 AM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
This question is NOT to start a disagreement.

I truly have a technical question on a Dual purpose home theater. Right now I am building a 35mm home theater. In the design, the theater itself is 11 by 11 ft. I also have a fully R-13 insulated booth that is 4 by 8 ft outside the center of the room with glass windows. I am using coated glass out of a old Epson scanner for the windows. The 35mm projector is exactly 12 ft back for a 3.5 by 8 foot slightly curved scope screen image. The screen is made of wallboard painted Lowes paint color white white.

The theater seats are all in a row 10.5 feet back from the screen.

Everything works great.

Now the question. What DLP projector will work best for under $1500 in this setup? I notice many projectors will give a 42 inch high image at about that same 12 ft which is exactly what I want. Some are rated at a brightness of 17fl (cheaper units) and others are as much as 3 times brighter at 60fl. (much more expensive units)

It seems the brighter the DLP projector, the brighter you can have the room lights. I intend for the room to be totally dark when in use. What brightness do you think would be best.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 03-12-2006 12:26 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Fact of the matter is, at $1500 or under you simply won't get a decent projector. You will be stuck with a "data projector" that has low resolution and only a single chip. If you want any sort of quality at all, you will have to go with a 3 chip DLP and over $10k. The Panasonic 7000 is probably the cheapest decent DLP projector out there right now.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

- posted 03-12-2006 12:39 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
Do I need this $10,000 projector to play DVD's? I ask this question because it would only be used for DVD's? Can I get away with a $1500 to $2500 projector because I am only playing somewhat crappy DVD's? Also with widescreen versions, do I need an anamorphic lens just like the 35mm projector or is the widescreen anamorphic built into the projector electronics?

I really know nothing about these projectors. I have seen maybe three in operation. One was film like but it was one of those $10,000 models with an anamorphic lens and HDTV feed. The others which were much cheaper did seem to do a reasonable job with DVD's but looked a little dark in a somewhat darken room. I am not trying to match 35mm. I am just looking for dual capabilities. So if I want, I can play 35mm or I can do DVD's

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 03-12-2006 12:53 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
In the end I believe you will be terribly disappointed with the resulting quality from a low end projector like that (even if it does say "DLP" on it). Yes, even with a low resoution DVD source.

Do note that some models are better than others, so perhaps someone out there reading this can recommend something cheap and not terribly crappy like the data projectors I've seen.

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 03-12-2006 02:00 PM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DVD Technical Forum & Worldwide DVD Forums might be useful to join whilst shopping around.

http://www.worldwidedvdforums.com/

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 03-12-2006 02:04 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You will need enough light to provide 12fl on screen (which is equivalent to 16fl on a film projector measured without film in the gate). You will also want something with component inputs and a DVD player with component outputs (which even the $39 el cheapo players have now).

Ideally, you will want a machine with interchangeable lenses so you can get the correct lens for your booth-to-screen distance and can thus avoid having to mount the thing on the ceiling instead of putting it in your booth where it belongs.

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

- posted 03-12-2006 02:49 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Scott and Bernard for your info. I do notice that alot of these projectors seem to want to give a little less then 3.5 ft or 40 inch high image at about 11 to 12 ft. Almost exactly where the very front of the Projector lens now sits. I am using a ISCO 60mm HD lens and a Super Cinelux Compact Anamorphic set for 12 ft. With that scope lens, I get an image of about 40 inches high. So it looks like many DLP projectors will fit in front of the projector if the DLP is not more then 15 inches long. It's about 15 inches from the glass window to the very front of the projector lens. The DLP in that position should also give me a 40 inch high image.
I could pull the projector back another foot but I will need a ISCO 65mm lens to make everything work. At least for now, I would like to stay away from interchangeable lenses.

[ 03-12-2006, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Larry Myers ]

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 03-12-2006 03:34 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just buy something from Circuit City and try it out. They allow you to get a full refund if you don't like it. Be aware that DLP has lag of about 1 or two frames due to the crappy and very slow scalers that DLP insists on using, so your audio could be a bit out of sync. I really don't like DLP due to the lag issue.

If you try the InFocus X2 or X3 or whatever is out now, know that most people seem to be fairly happy with it. I think it stretches for you so you won't need an anamorphic lens. Granted these things only have resolutions of 800x600, but that's what more than DVD. Ideally you'd find a projector with a resolution of 720x480.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 03-12-2006 03:44 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder if any of those little data projectors with an 800x600 pixel panel can be set to not scale. That should help the image a bit.

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000

- posted 03-12-2006 11:26 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Sony Qualia 3-panel machines with their 2K SXRD (reflective LCD) imagers might be worth a look. Not everyone seems to be happy with LCD black levels or response times, but these Sony's are supposed to be a major improvement. Supposed to have better fill factor and be as fast DLP. This is a machine in the $4000 price range I believe.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

- posted 03-13-2006 12:17 AM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...also, the big thing is the lumen output on any machine. with your setup, try for at least a 2000 lumen plus machine.

Those little data projectors only have barely over 1000 to 1600 lumens, which is great for tabletop presentations and a wall, or pulldown for a screen, but for a 11'ft throw (in which a square room is a bit dangerous for sound reverb since sound will bounce back at the origin, especially with multple speaker setups-object is to have an off-square room, like a 16x14 for example) find a machine with the lumen output above, a good 2000/1 contrast ratio and has 16.9 widescreen playback capability along with the good lumen output.

There are some good LCD units like Proximas if one didn't want to go single chip DLP's units.

Also, the resolution should be of the XGA 1200x600 area. Not the 800x600

Do a hunt on "eBone" for some of these units. Be suprised on what one can find on here.

-Monte

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

- posted 03-13-2006 07:15 AM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
It's interesting what you are saying about a square room. This room was used because it was an alcove in the basement with no windows and three sides already done. I just need to put up wallboard on those 3 sides. Actually the area itself is 19 by 19 with 4 by 8 foot section taken out taken out by the design of the house and basement. Another 5x8 foot section is the booth in the center. The last 4 by 8 foot section is the hallway which is open to the 11 by 11 room. I was hoping the little extra pipestem would help with sound.

[ 03-13-2006, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Larry Myers ]

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

- posted 03-13-2006 12:49 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AFAIK, Kodak has been using InFocus 3-chip DLP projectors for their HD Preshow installs:

Kodak HD Preshow System

InFocus Press Release

quote:
InFocus® Corporation (NASDAQ:INFS), the worldwide leader in digital projection technology and services, today announced it has been selected by Eastman Kodak Company and Cinema Screen Media (CSM) to provide three-chip Digital Light Processing (DLP™) digital projectors to bring high-definition clarity and excitement to pre-show entertainment programming.
By teaming with Kodak and CSM, the world's largest, independent provider of digital pre-show presentations, InFocus projectors will be an integral part of Kodak’s new high-definition pre-show capability. CSM is using the Kodak system to raise the standards for the unique programming they provide prior to feature films in movie theaters nationwide.
“Think of the movie screen as a ‘window’ through which audiences view entertainment,” said DonVassel, CEO of CSM. “The clearer we can make that window, the more engaging that entertainment can be. High-definition InFocus projectors make the window clearer than ever and enable us to achieve a new level in the value – and the audience enjoyment – of the work we provide.”
“In partnership with CSM, we continue to look for new ways to improve the overall look and feel of the pre-show presentation,” said Drena Rogers, Director of Strategic Initiatives for Kodak Digital Cinema. “That’s one reason why we have a worldwide agreement with InFocus for exclusive access to these unique projectors designed for cinema use and will use them to continue to push technology to deliver more creativity to movie audiences.”
CSM develops a unique pre-show presentation that combines marketing messages, music videos, and behind-the-scenes features into an entertainment package that exhibitors, audiences and advertisers find enjoyable and effective. CSM uses Kodak systems, exclusively, and is working with six exhibition chains, showing content on more than seven hundred screens, where it is seen by almost three million movie-goers a month.
Leveraging its expertise as the number one brand in projection, InFocus will provide high-definition digital projectors with customized lens options to complement the Kodak Digital Cinema system. The specially-produced InFocus ScreenPlay® 333 projectors use three DLP chips by Texas Instruments® and provide captivating images to set the stage for the feature film presentation. Built from award-winning InFocus ScreenPlay engineering, which has produced projectors and televisions with amazing clarity and image quality for the home, the ScreenPlay 333 uses this legacy to create a professional product ideal for the needs of public cinema.
“We are excited about this relationship with Kodak and CSM because they share our commitment to providing enriching experiences for customers with digital content delivery,” said Kyle Ranson, President and CEO, InFocus Corporation. “In addition to delivering big picture experiences for business, education and home, we are happy to offer projection for the cinema industry.”
“When you put the right partners together, great things are possible,” said Vassel. “We’re pleased to have exclusive rights to these InFocus projectors in the U.S.; working with them and the Kodak system, we’re well on our way to making the pre-show a more integral and more rewarding part of the overall cinema experience.”
quote:
Able to support a variety of projectors - including the INFOCUS 333 DLP 3-chip HD projector, available as partof the KODAK System

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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

- posted 03-13-2006 02:11 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks John. I notice a Home Theater company in Herndon is selling Infocus. I will have to take a look at them. Best Buy has HP projectors for about $1200. They have 2000 lumens and 2500 contrast. One is XGA at 1200x600. They said I could take it home and try it out. When I finish this room in about two weeks, I think I will do that.

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Mike Schindler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1039
From: Oak Park, IL, USA
Registered: Jun 2002

- posted 03-13-2006 03:06 PM      Profile for Mike Schindler   Email Mike Schindler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used to have the InFocus sp4805 which I think is pretty much the same as the X2 or whatever, only with a 16:9 chip and 480p resolution. A lot of people think that this is the best for the price range you're talking about. I was very happy with it, all things considered.

InFocus is releasing a new line of projectors very shortly, including the In72, which will essentially replace the sp4805. I think the price is about the same.

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