my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Community   » The Afterlife   » Merits of CRT Projectors

Author Topic: Merits of CRT Projectors Peter Berrett Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 602 From: Victoria, Australia Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-27-2006 06:22 AM                        Hi all I notice that there has been very little discussion about the merits of CRT Projectors on these forums. I have been looking around on the Internet and apparently the color reproduction and contrast ratios of these projectors is very good. The main difficulty appears to be that they do not give quite as much light as the lcd and dlp models. But they do not have rainbow effect and black means black. What do readers think of these projectors? Are they suitable (maybe ideally suitable) for home theatre use? That aside there appears to be some scope for buying second hand projector cheaply. Do the older models give good picture quality? Would CRT be your choice for non-film projection in the home environment? NOte to John Pytlak. Please comment on color reproduction of CRT sets vs LCD, DLP. Regards Peter  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 06-28-2006 09:29 AM                        quote: Peter Berrett NOte to John Pytlak. Please comment on color reproduction of CRT sets vs LCD, DLP. For direct view monitors, CRT is still preferred to other technologies for color reproduction. Likewise, for consumer level rear screen projection sets, CRT probably still has an edge for color reproduction. For high end projection using three modulators, DLP, LCOS and D-ILA can be very good, especially with well designed "color management" using 3-dimensional LUTs: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/dlmanage/kdm.jhtml?id=0.1.4.24&lc=en quote: KODAK Display Manager System—powered by KODAK Color Science—calibrates, characterizes, and leverages advanced 3D LUT technology to ensure all display devices—including digital projectors—are presenting a consistent visual reference. Saving time and streamlining collaboration throughout the production process.  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 06-28-2006 11:10 PM                    I had one of these things for home theatre once. They put out about 300 lumens, compared to 1000-2000 of a standard LCD or DLP projector. Also, if you plan on hanging these on your ceiling, they weigh in at about 125lbs. The picture IS better in my opinion, but not THAT much better to have to deal with the size and lighting requirements.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-28-2006 11:50 PM                     Don't forget that you can also "Stack" CRT projectors and pretty much perfectly converge them... this is something you can't do with any other type of video projection source. I still prefer the look of a good Barco CRT based video projector over DLP or LCD type for NTSC and even some hi-def. Contrast range is greater, coloremetry is better, and the image is also sharper. The other technologies are quickly catching up though. Mark  |  IP: Logged Frank Dubrois Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 896 From: Cleveland, OH Registered: Mar 2005 posted 06-29-2006 10:01 AM                    One problem you get with a used CRT projector is weak guns. The blue color is almost always very weak and usually the first to fade out. What you get then is a color that you cant focus. Everything that is brightly colored gets a blue halo effect around it. usually just replacing one of the CRT's isnt an option as it will then be stronger than the other other colors. Replacing all three isnt cheap either. You'd have to have one huge home theatre to stack those CRT's. Also..unless its a newer model, converging the colors on ONE unit is a process in itself. I think the newer ones are a little easier to set up, but the older ones took a long time with a small screwdriver converging each color onto another. I'd still go DLP. Some of the newer DLP units can get better than 10000:1 contrast (so they claim).  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-05-2006 09:39 PM                     Actually the blue CRT only amounts to about 12% to 14% of the overall image in a color tv. This is the way the NTSC system was designed. Although replacing all three is best you can many times get away with replacing just the blue crt. Also the human eye is least sensitive to blue so your blue tube would have to be really bad before it becomes objectionable. Alot of projection CRT's use a type of blue phosphor that has a tendency to bloom and you can never get an absolutely sharp spot or scan line... it just depends on what blue phosphor the manufacturer uses. My Mitsubishi has the type of phosphor that bloomns slightly but the red and green tubes are sharp as a tack. The Blue phosphor used in Barco's crt's is great and probably very expensive as its sharp as a tack. This can also be seen in tri-color crt's where the blue scan can never be focused quite as well as the red or green.... I dno't think that any DLP or LCD sets will ever look as good as a really high quality CRT based set can... crt's have a look all of their own and at present are still capable of alot more resolution. I don't think manufacturers are worried or even trying to replicate that look... crt's will literally just fade away in the next 5 years or so. I always felt that the crt vs. DLP or LCD had a difference in look siomilar to the difference in look between Eastman Color and I.B. Tech with the CRT being the latter! Mark  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 07-14-2006 03:29 PM                     Also remember, if you plan on displaying any still images from say a PC or even video games, CRT's can burn in images. I always liked the way CRTs looked too, but convergence can be fun, although I actually enjoy it! A couple questions for everyone else: does Runco still make a CRT front projector and how exactly would stacking two (or more?) CRTs work? Do you just converge them both to one point, running the same feed of video into each unit? AJG  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-14-2006 07:13 PM                     There are or were special stands available that allowed one to stack another projector on top of an existing one... double the image brightness... double the convergence headache which when done by remote is not all that bad... on the set convergence controls are a huge pain though. Mark  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 07-14-2006 09:10 PM                        Aaron, you might want to take a look at this old thread (it's not long): Superimposing 2 Data Projector Images That thread was talking about digital imager machines, but the basic principles are the same with CRTs. You're just having to do the same thing with individual colors on each machine. My sequence for doing a two/three/four projector overlay was always the same: pick one machine to be the primary and do that machine first. Once machine #1 is done, converge one color of machine #2 onto the green image of the first (some people liked to do green on green - I usually did machine #2's red onto machine #1's green). Once one color on machine #2 is done, converge the rest of machine #2's colors. Like Mark mentioned, having remotes to do this makes things A LOT easier. Also, allow for plenty of warmup time - I used to wait at least a half hour before starting the convergence process.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-14-2006 10:31 PM                     quote: Paul Mayer I used to wait at least a half hour before starting the convergence process. I don't know Paul, If I had worked in Vegas as you did I would have converged on the nearest buffet immediately... no need to wait even a minute let alone for 30. I always do the warming up in the process! Mark  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 07-15-2006 12:22 AM                        Hmmm... Pig out during the warm up. Never thought to do that at the time. I usually had lots of other gear to setup - tape machines, font generators, cameras, switchers. Plus had to do system timing, since as projectionist I was often also the TD or EIC. By the time I got all that other stuff done, the projectors would be nice and stable and ready for tweeking. I usually tweeked the machines during everyone else's lunch break. That way I could have a dark room to do the work. One thing I really miss about being a 'Vegas stagehand back in the day was the food. Most of the hotels fed their staffs very well. The 'help's halls' at some of them were as nice as any public restaurant on the property. We ate well - and for free.  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 07-15-2006 12:38 AM                  9x ceiling-mounted Sony VPH-1252's seamlessly edge-blended and line doubled for a continuous 360-degree image at a dance club by night, Video Circlevision theatre by day. 700-Lumen CRT projectors rule!  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 07-17-2006 07:41 AM                     Phil, It take one person a week to re-tube all those !  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.