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Topic: If you want a 3D TV, this may do
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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 06-21-2009 04:28 PM
Ooops, sorry, I missed this thread ![[uhoh]](graemlins/uhoh.gif)
The HDMI consortium already issued specs 1.4:
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/index.aspx
quote:
3D Over HDMI – Defines input/output protocols for major 3D video formats, paving the way for true 3D gaming and 3D home theater applications.
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/3d.aspx
quote:
The latest version of the HDMI standard establishes critical infrastructure for implementing 3D video in the home, defining input/output protocols that will allow 3D displays and source devices to communicate through an HDMI link. It’s a major milestone on the path to bringing true 3D gaming and 3D home theater to the mass market, supporting resolutions up to 1080p in 3D.
3D technology is evolving rapidly, with several competing approaches under development, so the HDMI 1.4 specification establishes protocols for a number of popular 3D display methods, including:
Frame, line, or field alternative methods
Side by side methods (full and half)
2D plus depth methods
A complete list of the supported 3D formats can be found in the HDMI 1.4 specification.
Then, the blu-ray consortium established a task force for stereoscopic 3D transport:
http://www.dvd-intelligence.com/display-article.php?article=656
quote:
The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) has formed a 3-D task force made up of members from the motion picture, consumer electronics and IT sectors, to ease “the integration of 3-D technology into the Blu-ray Disc format,” according to a statement from the group.
....
The BDA has not revealed details and when exactly the specifications are set to be defined.
Some makers of consumer electronics expect the standards to be finalized in 2010 – 2011 timeframe, however, it may be too optimistic prediction.
So as soon as they decide on the spec, then we'll be there. I'm on the camp that thinks this will happen well before 2012, perhaps as early as 2010, but maybe it'll end up being 2011.
Regardless, in a few years all the pieces of the puzzle for 3D-at-home in a good, affordable (for some ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ) and convenient manner, should be here.
All the hardware manufacturers have all of the available possible solutions already developed and ready to hit the market the moment a standard is chosen.
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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 09-02-2009 10:03 AM
Just some update:
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090901-715014.html
quote:
WALL STREET JOURNAL - TOKYO (Dow Jones)--Sony Corp. (6758.TO) will announce plans to sell 3D televisions globally by the end of 2010, the Financial Times reported Wednesday.
Speaking at the IFA technology trade show in Berlin, Sony chief Howard Stringer will announce plans to not only sell 3D Bravia television sets, but to make Sony's Vaio laptop computers, PlayStation 3 game consoles and Blu Ray disc players compatible with the technology, the paper said.
Sony has given no indication of prices, but analysts expect early 3D TVs to cost several thousand dollars.
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43841/135/
quote:
Three-D televisions could be about to take off, following the announcement that the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) is to support the format. Meanwhile, Sony is expected to announce a range of 3D products later today.
“The BDA intends to take full advantage of [Blu-ray's] high bandwidth and capacity to achieve the very highest possible quality 3D experience,” said Victor Matsuda, Blu-ray Disc Association Global Promotions Committee Chair.
The BDA is working on a spec, but says that, at a minimum, it will require delivery of 1080p resolution to each eye. It's promising backward compatibility for both discs and players. Thus, 3D discs will also include a 2D version of the film that can be viewed on existing 2D players, and 3D players will still allow users to play back their existing 2D movies.
“The 3D theatrical market has been very successful this year," said Bob Chapek, President of Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment. "We are just now seeing all of the true capabilities of 3D, and with Blu-ray Disc’s superior technical characteristics, as well as the broad industry support of the format, it makes it the ideal packaged media platform for 3D home entertainment.”
Meanwhile, according to the Financial Times, Sony is expected to announce later today that it will have 3D products in the shops by the end of the year. It is likely to launch Bravia televisions, Vaio laptops, PlayStation 3 consoles and Blu-ray disk players.
It's not clear how far these products will conform to the BDA specification, although the FT does say that the company is plumping for 'active shutter' technology, rather than the polarisation technique used in 3D films.
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Julio Roberto
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 938
From: Madrid, Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted 09-02-2009 12:37 PM
The system itself won't really matter, as you can "convert" any format into any format. And it's very unlikely it will be field sequential. Perhaps frame sequential, but I doubt they'll do field-seq as that would serious impact the compatibility of playing such a stream into an existing 1080p TV in 2D.
What I mean is that, i.e., theatres are "frame sequential" in the sense they are 48fps left-right-left-right (scanned 3 times each at 144hz). But that doesn't prevent Sony from taking the same DCP 48fps and putting one frame on top of the other in their 4K.
Same thing here, at the home market. Only piece missing is how blu-ray is going to output the signal. Once that is known, you can convert anything into anything. I.e. a TV can just take the signal and "interlace it" for line-alternating polarized output. Or checkerboard it, for checkeboard polarization. Or use it to compute polarization steering map, like in dual-panel 3-D monitors. Or a demultiplexer box can take two consecutive sequential frames and ouput to dual HDMI for dual home projectors. Etc.
So it won't really matter WHAT standard is chosen for blu-ray to ouput two frames, one for each eye (when before there was only one frame), all that matters is that one standard IS chosen and, if possible, semi-compatible with existing stuff (i.e. 2D will still work just fine in current players and TV's).
On the other side, current TV's, even if 120hz+, pbbly won't be able to (directly) cope with the signal, as their HDMI (say 1.3) inputs likely didn't allow for say 48fps frame sequential inputs, ie. And if you do field-sequential, you lose half the resolution to begin with, and I think they are trying to avoid that. Plus I don't think the 120hz tv's refresh each field individually: moderns TV's display progressively (some may process interlace, but almost all of them display progressive even if processed interlaced).
So yes. It means that, basically, chances are you need a new television AND a new blu-ray player to do (proper) 3-D TV. The television can be sequential with active glasses or polarized with passive ones, your choice. Dual projection I have the feeling might require a little de-multiplexing box adapter, pbbly.
Those saying that stuff like 3D or 4K-at-home or 8K won't happen for a long time, don't know that they are probably just as much right as they are wrong.
There is no "need" for 3D or 4K or 8K+ or any of these thing. Heck, there isn't even a need for HD. Consumers, at least in 25fps 720x576 anamorphic 16:9 TV sets PAL-land, are perfectly happy with DVD quality. Sure HD is much better (the difference in quality is much more pronounced in 720x480 pull-down interlaced 60i NTSC-land), but I don't see people running around rushing for blu-rays around here. Most buy an HD TV ... but use it to watch SD material 99% of the time. Most (illegally) downloaded from the internet and re-compressed like 4 times, btw.
But 3-D and 4K and 8K and 240hz and 480hz and 600hz and 10000000000:1 contrast sets and 2.35:1 TV's will come (or are here already) not because they are "needed" ... but because they don't really cost much more to manufacture and manufacturer's know they must put out something new and superior if they want to convince people to "throw away" their just-purchased and perfectly good HD TV to buy yet another one. Or, at least, they can differenciate from the competition and command higher prices even if nobody really cares about 4K-at-home or 3D or 600hz.
Otherwise, once everybody gets their new HD TV set, nobody would ever purchase a single one for 25 years, since current HD TV's certainly have ALL the quality needed for your average home movie-watching experience at reasonable prices.
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