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Topic: Video rental changes

Claude S. Ayakawa
Film God

Posts: 2738
From: Waipahu, Hawaii, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 01-07-2010 02:37 PM

Warner Home Video and Netflix had agreed to a four week time window before new titles can be rented after they are released for sale. It is unclear if this agreement includes new catalogue titles. Although the agreement is between WHV and Netflix, I am sure the new policy will eventually include Blockbuster and other video rental companies.

Changes in video rental is already in effect with some new releases featuring the movie only with no extra features. As a businessman for over forty years, I have no problem with these changes because the studio and the video rental stores are in business to make money. As far as the four week window is concerned, I have waited about three months for the video release of a movie and waiting an additional month will be no problem with me. The lack of extra features on a disc is also no problem because I rarely spend time with them if I was interested in the movie only. The only exception to the rule are with releases such as GONE WITH THE WIND, SOUTH PACFIC, THE ROBE, HOW THE WEST WAS WON, THE WIZARD OF OZ and so many others. These are movies I had purchased on Blu Ray and DVD because in addition to the movie, they came with extra features I wanted. .

-Claude

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Joe Tommassello
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 547
From: Coatesville, PA, USA
Registered: Jan 2008

posted 01-07-2010 04:41 PM

Claude -

Like you I am mainly interested in the special features only on films that are of a classic nature. There is very little current product for which I need to know the background. How many times can you watch a guy on a wire, then the CGI people finishing it?

As for the rental window...is that just for online rental? Do they have some plan for keeping brick-and-mortar rental stores from getting the titles for four weeks?

I still say the rental-priced DVD/BRD is in our near future and this is a step in that direction.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-07-2010 07:00 PM

I'm skeptical Warner Home Video will see any big profit increases via this 1 month window between retail video sales and video rentals. I think a lot of people will just happily wait a month until the movie becomes available for rent. That month long wait isn't such a big deal considering how quickly movies arrive on home video following their theatrical release.

I rarely have ever bought any movies on Blu-ray or DVD without seeing the movie first. I'm not going to "blind buy" a Blu-ray movie without being pretty sure it will be something I'll watch repeatedly -which is the most important factor in owning a movie versus just renting it.

That extra 1 month window between video sales and video rentals could have an unintended consequence of encouraging a lot of people to wait until the movie's sale price drops. Anyone who has been buying DVDs and Blu-ray for any number years is well accustomed to the movie's asking price to drop a few dollars after 2 or 3 months.

Many video stores charge $5, $6 or more to rent a movie on Blu-ray. If I have already waited a month after home video release date just to rent the movie, it won't be any big deal for me to wait a few weeks longer to buy the movie at a very serious discount provided I really liked the movie I rented.. There's a lot of movies out there which I was glad only to have rented.

The thing I find more disturbing about WHV's retail vs. rental window is how it works in conjunction with those AWFUL discs created specifically just for video rental stores. They suck. I'm never renting another one of those things again. The discs are very bare bones, even lacking chapter stops. There's no top level main menu and the trailers and TV commercials are forced. Very anti-consumer. I really hope no other major studios follow WHV's very stupid example.

If all the Blu-ray discs available at rental stores and Netflix are bare bones only rental specific in nature then the situation would encourage me to merely wait for movies to wind up on cable.

I'm still not sold on renting movies via download. The audio/video quality sucks and the price is stupidly expensive compared to what traditional video stores charge. I'd rather spend $5.99 for a 7 day Blu-ray rental from Hastings than pay $7 for a 24 hour window to see a 720p shit-vision iTunes movie or badly compressed 1080p download on my Dish Network DVR.

quote: Joe Tommassello
I still say the rental-priced DVD/BRD is in our near future and this is a step in that direction.

The proverbial genie is already out of the bottle on that one. Very very few people are going to pony up $70-$100 to buy a single disc Blu-ray movie. Any studio pulling that stunt will just watch for weeks or months while their movie titles move next to no copies off store shelves. The vast majority of customers are more than patient for the price to drop by a lot.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-07-2010 07:15 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Many video stores charge $5, $6 or more to rent a movie on Blu-ray.

Get out! Seriously? I never go to brick-and-mortar rental stores any more so I don't know what they're charging around here. Anyway that reaffirms what a bargain Netflix is, for me anyway. I pay them $10.99/month and besides the Blu-rays, I can stream all the content I want (via my TiVo). Over the holidays I started watching "Lost" from the beginning. It streams in HD at 720p, rarely any glitches, and looks really good. I'm up to Episode 16. $10.99/month for that much content is a bargain.

Of course we won't mention what I'm paying Comcast every month for the b/w needed to stream in HD. [Eek!]

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-07-2010 08:01 PM

If I rented movies a little more often I would certainly have a Netflix account. Netflix is really good for people who live in rural areas or at least some considerable distance from the nearest video stores.

Driving to and from the video store isn't much of an issue for me since the Hastings and Hollywood Video locations I visit are less than 1 mile from my house and also near Wal-Mart, Sam's Club and a bunch of other stores. I'm going to be driving around that area at least a couple times per week, so it's no big deal at all to include a stop at the video store as part of an errand run.

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007

posted 01-07-2010 08:10 PM

Currently this 28-day window only applies to Netflix as they are the only rentailer to agree to it. WB feels that cheap rental options (kiosks-Redbox and online subs-Netflix) hurt their sales of DVDs. So they get one player who represents approx. 25% of the total rental market to comply.

Netflix gets 2 things: 1) cheaper product and 2) more content for their streaming. Netflix agreed to this deal b/c they do not deal much with HOT New Releases (titles less than 28 days). Only 30% of their shipped movies are new release (and that probably means movies up to 6 mos after release).

Question to you Netflix customers- Are you getting movies during the first 2 weeks of release right now?

Kiosks-Redbox: WB wants the same window on redbox. But that would be bad for Redbox. While Netflix customers are happy getting movies that are older, the majority of mainstream stores (BB/Hollywood/Hastings) customers want the newest movies (just like Theatres). At my store, 28% of my movies that are rented are movies that are 2 weeks old or less. Movies over a year old regularly account for less than 10%.

Redbox has been getting copies of movies that WB/Uni/Fox release by purchasing them from WM and other box stores. In most cases they are having to pay the $19.99 retail. At the WM I buy from, Redbox is paying the $19.99 while I am allowed to purchase at whatever competitive low price their is. Redbox has been testing $2 rentals at various locations but I believe that that price does not help their growth aspirations.

Blockbuster: There has been speculation in my owners' circle that I belong to that ultimately BB stores will agree to this type of deal. I do not see that happening.

Independent stores: A 28 day sale window would be absolutely great for us. That is why it will not happen! Thanks to the first sale doctrine, we can just buy copies from where ever we choose and rent them (kinda like many of us are doing right now).

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Joe Tommassello
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 547
From: Coatesville, PA, USA
Registered: Jan 2008

posted 01-08-2010 01:08 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
Very very few people are going to pony up $70-$100 to buy a single disc Blu-ray movie. Any studio pulling that stunt will just watch for weeks or months while their movie titles move next to no copies off store shelves. The vast majority of customers are more than patient for the price to drop by a lot.

Bob - I agree. The vast majority of end users won't spend the extra bucks. Now consider Mike's statement...

quote: Mike Frese
A 28 day sale window would be absolutely great for us. That is why it will not happen! Thanks to the first sale doctrine, we can just buy copies from where ever we choose and rent them (kinda like many of us are doing right now).

This is what the studios want - but not resulting in Mike's vision! While I don't believe the $90 retail price video ($58 wholesale) will return I think we'll see an effort for the studios to get about $40 per disc (with a three or four month price guarantee window) in an attempt to recoup some of the lost video rental revenue. This will put Netflix, Blockbuster and independents like Mike in a position to either pay or not have the product for quite a while. Like you - and probably 99% of the customer base - I would wait 120 days for the lower-priced alternative.

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Mike Frese
Master Film Handler

Posts: 465
From: Holts Summit, MO
Registered: Jun 2007

posted 01-08-2010 09:48 PM

Joe,

I wholeheartedly disagree. Consumers will NOT spend $40 to buy a movie. Even $25 is too high which is why you are consistently now seeing BR at $19.99.

Remember, this 28 day window is to help new dvd/br sales which is at the $19.99 price or less. There has been no talk to raise the selling price at retail. So when Blind Side is selling at Wal-Mart for $19.99 or less, there is nothing that the studios can do to limit independent stores ability to purchase this.

The chain stores (BB/Movie Gallery/Hollywood) love to revenue share vs buying outright. So you will see poor stock at the chains on WB titles right now as their is no revenue sharing deal with WB.

I can't see the chains agreeing to such a deal right now. The cost of the movies would have to be reduced to next to nothing to be worthwhile for the chains. The masses want the newest movies.

I would thrive in such a situation if where to happen. I am not that lucky.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-08-2010 10:00 PM

The publicly traded multinational corporations who own movie studios want all of the movie from a movie release and they want it NOW.

That basically means they want the movie put forth into "sell through" form ASAP. They believe they get most of their profits from movie disc sales. Anything else that happens before hand (theatrical release, exclusive windows for rental or pay per view) is just time wasted. Those guys want as much money as possible from the project immediately particularly since so many projects are funded by borrowed money. Gotta reduce those interest payments. That isn't going to happen by extended the time a movie plays in commercial theaters or giving video rental stores an exclusive window.

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