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Author Topic: Do modern home audio soundtracks suck? Tom Petrov Five Guys Lover Posts: 1121 From: El Paso, TX Registered: Jan 2003 posted 05-14-2011 11:28 PM                    I have been watching a number of my older laserdisc movies. Movies that were obviously made before the year 2000. I have been noticing that some of the more modern movies seem to be lacking richness or depth in the soundtracks compared to the older tacks. . I just watched the movie TRON Legacy. It is 7.1 with Master Audio. Yes, the sound was coming from all over the place but it just sounded tinny and overdone or artificial. Its kind of like they are getting carried away. I am kind of worried about my Bluray of Air America...it is 7.1 DTS MA...but will it be any good. I have a few questions. Do they alter the soundtrack for home video? If they did, did they alter the tracks during the LD era? I am wondering if it is the modern sound mixes or the delivery method? Also, for the first time ever, I am starting to turn off AC-3 in favour of the Digital Tracks containing Dolby Surround for my LDs. Its seems to me to be more fuller. This is not an attack on digital sound. My Titanic, English Patient, Avatar BR, Shine are all outstanding. What do others think?  |  IP: Logged Jesse Skeen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1517 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Aug 2000 posted 05-15-2011 08:01 PM                     Supposedly many DVD soundtracks are dumbed-down for home use. Some 5.1 tracks are done so that they will still sound 'good' when downmixed to 2-channel (reason why some DVDs instead have a separate Pro-Logic track along with the 5.1.) I just try not to think about it as it drives me nuts Laserdisc AC3 and DTS tracks were generally closer to the theatrical mixes, since they didn't want to waste time re-mixing them and those who could play them probably had the right equipment to handle them anyways (at least you couldn't play those in 2-channel or mono without really trying!)  |  IP: Logged Jeff Kane Film Handler Posts: 74 From: corpus christi, tx Registered: Jun 2011 posted 07-15-2011 02:02 PM                     You thought Tron:Legacy sounded tinny and overdone? I'll grant you it was a seriously 'active' soundtrack but tinny isn't the term I'd use. In fact it's probably one of the most bass-heavy soundtracks I've ever heard! First time anything's ever made the door to the theater rattle against the seal! The music definitely has a lo-fi quality to it but that was an artistic choice and is just Daft-Punk's 'sound'. I have noticed the DTS-MA and DolbyHD soundtracks tend to be quieter for some reason. It could also be the equipment not handling DTS-MA properly. Try telling the player to output DTS Core, DD or PCM and see what happens.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 07-15-2011 03:00 PM                     Far more often than not the limits of one's own home theater system and how it is set up and maintained plays more into how movies sound than the audio data on the disc. Complaints about lack of thump in certain movies could turn out to be a blown speaker driver, failing amplifier or some other problem. Then there's the issue of taste. What one person considers a great sounding mix may seem like crap to another listener. I personally don't have many complaints at all about current movie mixes as opposed to those in the past. Sound designers certainly have far more capable tools now than what existed 10 or 20 years ago. My biggest complaint with audio these days has to do with the music industry. Most popular music is mixed and mastered with the gain turned up so loud all the peaks in the wave form are clipped. The practice of clipping the wave form literally deletes audio detail. It degrades audio quality. I don't know if this idiotic practice is seeping into movie and TV audio production.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-15-2011 07:46 PM                     The Dolby Digital on DVDs and LDs was way too compressed, and sounded thin. I always remember when I got my first DVD player. I played a DVD and then an LD. The CD quality audio from the LD blew away the DD from the DVD.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-15-2011 08:42 PM                     quote: Bobby Henderson My biggest complaint with audio these days has to do with the music industry. Most popular music is mixed and mastered with the gain turned up so loud all the peaks in the wave form are clipped. The practice of clipping the wave form literally deletes audio detail. It degrades audio quality. The Loudness War Bobby, you also forgot to mention that damned Autotune that is INTENTIONALLY being overadjusted so talentless people can pretend that they can sing. Getting back to movies though, many home video releases are EXACTLY the way they were in the theaters. Unfortunately some ARE "remastered" for video. One good example that comes to mind is the recent Hairspray mix. The video mix is pure crap.  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 07-15-2011 11:55 PM                     The great thing about the loudness war is that everyone who reads the wikipedia article thinks they are an expert. The severity of this problem is greatly exaggerated, and in many cases of modern music it is an aesthetic consideration.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 07-16-2011 11:52 AM                     No, this really isn't an aesthetic consideration. There is nothing subjective about raising the audio gain way too high. It is a practice that is just plain stupidly wrong. The practice is there to satisfy idiots who cannot seem to adjust a volume knob on their own stereo system. If you have an audio editing application and access to old music CDs (ones made in the 1980s up to the early 1990s) you can do a visual comparison between how the wave forms appear with those songs versus the ones from new CDs. For example, I can open a song from the 24K Ultradisc II version of Pink Floyd: Dark Side of the Moon. There is zero clipping of the audio. The entire wave form fits within the frame. Just about any new rock or pop CD made in the last 15 or so years is engineered much louder. When you import one of those .WAV files into the audio editor you'll see many of the peaks rise way beyond the top boundary of the window. The peaks are deleted when that happens.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-16-2011 01:01 PM                     Clipping is the new distortion. Remember back when sound mixers would intentionally overmodulate the recordings to give the illusion of loudness? All it gave me the illusion of was a cheap stereo that was being played louder than it was capable of.  |  IP: Logged Bruce Hansen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 847 From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-16-2011 06:35 PM                     A record producer I worked with one time told me this is happening because each producer wants their stuff to sound the loudest on the LA radio stations. I have not bought a CD in years (or downloaded music) because 1) I cannot stand to listen to clipped to hell crap, 2) I have not heard anything in years that I would spend money on. It's all very badly recorded CRAP.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-17-2011 01:33 AM                        Tom Petrov, I have a few questions for you. Please answer them as that is what is expected when questions are directed towards you. Anyway, without further ado, here they are: 1. Do you have the low frequencies from any speakers in your sound system clipped and routed to the subwoofer when in discrete modes (non-Pro Logic)? If so, don't do that. Get full range speakers for every single channel. Only send discrete subwoofer information to the subwoofer. 2. Have you EQ'd your system and properly set all levels with an SPL meter or do you just press the THX button and assume everything will automatically be made as good as it can possibly be? Ever wonder why real movie theaters don't have THX buttons that "accomplish" the same thing? Because it's a ridiculous notion, that's why. 3. Is your comment about Air America a question? If so, it needs a question mark. That said, I thought Tron Legacy sounded pretty damn good. However I recently rented the Tron (original 1982) DVD and it sounded like complete ASS! The subwoofer is almost always on and it is mixed far, far too loudly. It's really ridiculous. I'd rather listen to it in mono with cassette tape quality than the remix they did. I don't know if the Blu-ray version has the same shitty sound mix or not.  |  IP: Logged Damien Taylor Master Film Handler Posts: 493 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2007 posted 07-17-2011 04:17 AM                     quote: No...t... an aesthetic consideration. It is for crappy crap garagecorenoise metal shit. quote: Bobby Henderson CDs (ones made in the 1980s Sound really awful too for other reasons. quote: Bobby Henderson For example Yeah I know what it is, and I know it exists, but the way people harp on about how it's destroying our recorded heritage or something is a bit OTT. And it's usually the people that don't let their cables touch the floor and buy rocks to stop cosmic particle interference.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-17-2011 05:22 AM                        I can't remember where I saw it... it was definitely Youtube but I don't remember which exact video, but it showed a song released by an artist (maybe Billy Joel?) on CD back in whatever year it was. Then came the recent re-release or Greatest Hists album and the WAVE file showed tremendous clipping on the exact same song. Are you saying that they decided that they wanted to take an aesthetic approach to an already existing song by adding clipping to a simple Greatest Hits CD? What would this accomplish? Can't we turn up our own volume knobs? The answer is no, we can't. Devices like iPods and whatnot are usually pretty limited in the overall dynamic range they can deliver through their super low quality ear buds. It really helps if the song is compressed to make it appear that you are hearing "all" of the song. The real problem is low quality sound components that cannot deliver good dynamic range. A huge culprit is the automobile sound system. Record companies want the songs to sound good and loud on shitty car systems and have for quite some time. Compressed sound helps when competing with traffic noise, ambulance sirens, screaming pedestrians and lots of other unwanted sounds you hear while driving. Once it was discovered that most people listen to music in their cars, stuff started getting more and more compressed. One thing is for sure, compressed sound is way more fatiguing to listen to. And no, you fools, I don't mean data compression, though that also makes my bowels stir with fragrant diarrhea. I wish record companies would release two versions: Compressed and uncompressed. Use the crappy one in the car and the good one on a high quality home stereo system or with really good headphones (not ear buds).  |  IP: Logged Tom Petrov Five Guys Lover Posts: 1121 From: El Paso, TX Registered: Jan 2003 posted 07-17-2011 10:32 AM                    Its all the crazy activity in the rears of 7.1 I don't really like.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 07-17-2011 03:53 PM                        See? I knew you wouldn't answer the questions. You are so predictable.  |  IP: Logged

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