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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Large Format Forum   » Large Film Formats? (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Large Film Formats?
Jan Hackett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Registered: Apr 2002

- posted 06-01-2002 06:57 PM      Profile for Jan Hackett   Email Jan Hackett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From what I have learned so far IMAX is 15:70. IWERKS 8:70 & 5:70.
These formats relate to the screen size 15:70 having the largest screen. My screen is 5 stories high and I use 8:70 format. I know IMAX films are released only to IMAX theaters when first out. Then they are converted to other formats. How does this conversion take place? and is this the reason We have to purchase the print in order to lease it for show? I want to show Space Station in 2D on my 8:70 screen. Boss tells me "Goodluck" with IMAX. Well Lockheed Martin produced the film and also built our theater. I do not think this is impossible. What are the considerations and costs. Will the film even look good or do I need to reccomend we buy IMAX and renovate? Your thoughts and ideas appreciated.

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Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation

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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99

- posted 06-01-2002 07:25 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Imax Design their Theatres normally from base build up,not sure of situration in your case.

Operating a Imax Theatre can be/is a "costly experience!", so you will need to do a good business plan before you set out on this project, and it must be noted that Imax may not be keen with the idea of 8/70 Iwerks system on their screen or sound through the Imax Sonics Sound equipment.


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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99

- posted 06-01-2002 07:34 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These formats relate to the screen size 15:70 having the largest screen.

No!, they relate to the format size and ratio

5/70

Picture Frame Area 5 Perforations High/ 70mm stock

8/70

Picture Frame Area 8 Perforations High/ 70mm stock

15/70

15 Perforations Wide (Horizontal)/ 70mm stock

Imax films run Horizontally through the projector, while 8/70 is projected vertical is in 35mm projectors.

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Jan Hackett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Registered: Apr 2002

- posted 06-01-2002 08:07 PM      Profile for Jan Hackett   Email Jan Hackett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I understand the perf size but does not a larger size need a larger screen?

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

- posted 06-01-2002 09:28 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It doesn't have to be a larger screen although a larger format can be projected to a larger size and still look good. 15-70 machines (IMAX format) are also available from non-IMAX sources.

As for how films are converted between formats, this is done with an optical printer which is basically a very high precision projector movement beaming into a very high precision camera movement by way of a relay lens that enlarges or reduces as necessary. Often, because of the nature of the movements, particularly for large formats, the optical printer will run at less than projection speed. The optics can include an anamorphic lens for converting between 65/70mm-5 perf and 35mm/Scope or to blow up a Super 35 negative to Scope format.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 06-01-2002 09:51 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Iwerks YUltra70/maverick are also 15 perf 70
THe film frame size relates to the quality of the projected image to the screen size

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000

- posted 06-01-2002 09:53 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
It is important to note that even though Imax invented the 15/70 format, it is not really called the Imax format.

So when you say "Imax" films, do you mean Imax-distributed films or any 15/70 print?

AFAIK, Imax is still adamant about NOT releasing any film they distribute to any theater that is not equipped with Imax-brand 15/70 equipment.

And with very few exceptions (like Gordon's place) Imax-brand equipment is leased, not purchased.

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Jan Hackett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Registered: Apr 2002

- posted 06-01-2002 11:01 PM      Profile for Jan Hackett   Email Jan Hackett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I get it..thanks but what is the deal with Gordons place and how can IMAX have a Monopoly on who plays their films. Isn't that illegal?

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

- posted 06-01-2002 11:24 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are a lot of factors deciding the price, but generally when done, an IMAX set up will cost about $1,000,000 (one mill.) That's just for installation.

IMAX closely regulates the projector and it's operation, ie: you must have the operators pass a course and agree to IMAX's maintaince program, etc. You must also use their "Sonics" sound system, which isn't cheap. We were able to build a sound system that included sweitching in a regular 35mm projector (SR-D and DTS) for about $100,000. ($20,000 was just for the 35mm dubber and it's MPU and NR cards.) IMAX "Sonics" wanted over $200,000 just for a system that would only do the IMAX projector format.

The downside to IMAX is it's very, very expensive. But the upside is it is reliable, durable - you almost never lose a show.

On the other hand, we put in a system that costs less than half of an IMAX, and I personally think we went too cheap; we've had a lot of problems. So, listen to Ben before you jump..

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 06-02-2002 01:09 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are far more films that are available on8-10 and 15 perf 70 than the few a year that IMAX produces and controls distribution of
Macgilvery Freemen library is available 8 perf as is most of the destination cinema product

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 06-02-2002 03:45 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You might be able to get Space Station in 8-70. There has been some controversy about the space movies which are sponsored by a US company and rely on NASA goodwill and equipment to produce. They are supported by NASA (i.e. US tax dollars) for publicity (NASA is essentially a huge PR operation trying to justify it's budget... and they occasionally launch a rocket) and some congresspeople were a bit annoyed at the distribution limitations of earlier space films.
It is at least worth investigating the non-Imax possibilities.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

- posted 06-02-2002 05:29 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Omniplex Museum in Oklahoma City installed an Iwerks driven 15/70 dome screen theater last year, with "Everest" being the first film they showed.

MacGillivray/Freeman Films has been doing a really good job with their independent 15/70 productions, which can be shown on IMAX-branded and non-branded 15/70 screens. I think "To The Limit" was their first show. "Everest" is billed now as the most successful large format film in history.

If more companies like MacGillivray Freeman can do a credible job with 15/70 then it will force IMAX to get more competitive on pricing out systems. I don't know how much better IMAX 15/70 setups are than a Iwerks 15/70 rig (or how much cheaper Iwerks is).

BTW, are there any Iwerks Imagine360 10/70 screens still in operation? It is a totally seamless 360 degree screen format, and the projector is positioned directly overhead beaming a donut like image on 10/70 film through a wide angle fish eye style lens onto the screen.

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Jan Hackett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Registered: Apr 2002

- posted 06-02-2002 07:43 PM      Profile for Jan Hackett   Email Jan Hackett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really appreciate the info from all of you. I have the oportunity to install another projector in my existing booth and so I am trying to research and learn from all of you what my best options would be. I could do 3D if I installed another Iwerks 8:70 linear loop but That is expensive I have never seen a 3D print and I don't know how much product there is to justify. But space station 3D is an option if released in 8:70. Do these 3D fims eventually get released in 2D and all formats like T-REX has. My other option is to install a 35 mm to increase show options at night but my screen is overkill for that. So I was thinking of installing a 15:70 projector. This is ALL new to me so forgive my ignorance. I have only run 35mm houses before.
BTW this house cost us a mil to build .It is quite nice and already prepped for another projector. Where should I start inquiring about Space Station? The justice dept maybe

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Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 06-02-2002 07:51 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1570 requires a lot of room if you go with the only proven technology the rolling loop
For that you have 3 options
Iwerks for the CTC rolling loop
Ultra70
and IMAX

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Jan Hackett
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 148
From: Albuquerque, NM, USA
Registered: Apr 2002

- posted 06-02-2002 08:00 PM      Profile for Jan Hackett   Email Jan Hackett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks gordon...I think I only have room for vertical projection.

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Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation

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