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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Digital Cinema Forum   » NEC NC800 digital projector. (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: NEC NC800 digital projector.
Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 12-02-2006 06:04 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anybody know anything about it, good or bad?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-02-2006 09:06 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
NEC projectors have overall in this area been the most reliable of the lot. The biggest disadvantage of the 800 is that regular cinema type xenon lamps cannot be utilized as can be in the two larger NEC units. From a cost standpoint that could be a big disadvantage. The nice feature is that the projector can be moved around as in a rental scenearo without removing the lamp. It is also the lightest weight cinema type DLP available. Don't use it on a screen much over 25 feet wide!! The next larger unit is just a few thousand more and is the one I would go with because of the lamp thing. NEC's seem to have the more efficient optical chain over both Christie and Barco.

Mark

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 12-03-2006 07:17 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What type of lamp does it use Mark?

One of these is being instlled in the place where I project from time to time as part of the UK Film Council/Arts Alliance Digital Screen Network scheme. I was looking at the report of the site survey yesterday; there are some major problems fitting the thing in, it's supposed to be completed by next month, but I can't see all the necessary work being finished by then. Screen size isn't a problem, the place is tiny, 68 seats, screen size probably about four metres; I've been told that it's the second smallest cinema in Britain.

A new port is needed, that's the major mroblem, there are other things in the way, which were discussed at the site survey, but are not shown on the drawings; one of them is going to be quite difficult to find a new home for, as it has to be within reach of the main witch for No. 2 projector. Also, the drawing clearly states that the port sizes shown are the glass sizes; on the drawing the new port just about fits in, but if you allow for the frames of the ports, then they will overlap. I can see a few other problems/conflicts as well, I'm going to have to e-mail the new chief, and get the dimensions checked; it's her first day as chief tomorrow, she mainly works as the lighting technician for the multi-purpose hall, but does project from time to time. She could probably do without having to deal with this tomorrow, but if there are problems I'd rather they were found, and resolved, now, rather than in the middle of the installation.

We also have to provide a 16A single phase outlet for the projector, the model they are supplying to larger cinemas needs a 32A three phase and neutral one, a 13A fused spur to supply a 'wallbox', I'm not quite sure what that does, an ADSL line, and a pair of NC contacts on the fire alarm system. The sound system also has to be upgraded, and the sound rack re-located. That means the desk will have to go. Keys will be delivered via the ADSL line it seems, which will also be used for remote monitoring and diagnostics.

750GB of storage is provided as standard, but the cinema can opt to buy up to an extra 750GB, in 250GB increments. However, this has to be done before the original installation, it cannot be upgraded afterwards, which seems really silly. I don't know the reason.

The place opened twelve years ago, in an existing space that was part of the old library. I'm not sure what the projection room area used to be, but it's a very difficult shape; fitting new equipment into existing cinemas can cause major problems. The chosen solution won't be ideal, but they've done well to manage to find a way of doing it at all. In an ideal world we'd have a new arts centre, where everything was purpose-designed from scratch, but we don't live in an ideal world, and we have to fit things into an existing space as best we can.

Something that concerns me somewhat is that it says that no extraction is required as the machine just exhausts to the atmosphere through a vent on the left side. It gets pretty unpleasant in the box when there is just a conventional video projector operating in there; do you know how much heat this thing puts out?

Has anyone here got one of these UKFC/AA setups running yet? What films have you run on it so far?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-03-2006 07:01 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 800 uses a special D-Cinema high efficiency NEC lamp that may also be available from other lamp manufacturers. The down side of the high efficiency lamps is short life span and high cost. Running over time on D-Cinema lamps is dangerous considering that the reflector for the larger units is over $4000.00 U.S. if the lamp lets go. Don't know the reflector cost on the 800 but I oculd probably find out easily. I can guarantee you its not cheap! Heat exhausted is on the order of 8000 BTU max so you may want to connect it to the main booth exhaust system somehow.

Your theater sounds unique and a one of a kind sort of operation. The 800 should produce some darn good looking stuff provided its encoded in JPEG2000. MPEG looks dull and flat by comparison. What server are you getting?

Mark

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 12-14-2006 06:05 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry I didn't answer you before Mark, I've not been back there again until today, to look at the paperwork. It's a QuVIS Cinema Player.

The whole Centre, not just the cinema, is normally closed between Christmas and New Year; this year the cinema will remain closed while the preparatory work and installation are carried out, and is due to re-open on 8th of Januuary.

It's not that unusual a place, there are similar sorts of places in many London boroughs, and elsewhere, though the cinema in this case is unusually small; there just wasn't the space to make it any bigger.

There's a multi-purpose hall, which is used for theatre, comedy, cocerts etc., and also gets hired out for things like wedding recptions. There's also a museum, an exhibition space, and several small rooms used for various purposes. There was a Chief and a senior technician, both of whom have left to go overseas in recent months, one to Spain and the other to Mexico. Two projectionists, and two other technicians, one who deals mainly with lighting, she is now the Chief, and another who deals mainly with sound; both of these also project from time to time. Finally there's a young fellow, who works mainly in the box office, who they are also training up to project, so they don't need to call on my services very often. The last time I worked there was when all the others were at the leaving 'do' for the senior technician; today was because all of those on duty today were working on an event in the hall.

The Duty Managers, front of house, box office and bar staff etc. are shared by the whole complex, and they are pretty flexible; it's not uusual to see the Manager taking tickets, for example. That may sound like a lot of technical staff, but they also work on various outside events, festivals, exhibitions etc, organised by the Council at various venues.

[ 12-15-2006, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Furley ]

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Justin West
Master Film Handler

Posts: 271
From: Peoria, IL, USA
Registered: Jul 2001


 - posted 12-14-2006 07:14 PM      Profile for Justin West   Email Justin West   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, Mark, are you saying if the xenon bulb in one of these DC projectors suffers a catastrophic failure, chances are that it will take out the tiny mirror system with it?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-14-2006 09:21 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually the tiny mirror system is not so tiny. At least in the Barco and Christie and the larger NEC projctors. That tiny glass mirror system costs 4 grand to replace. There has been at least one catastrophic failure in the Salt Lake area in a Barco projector. The tiny NEC 800 weighs in at a mere 146 lbs!!

The tiny mirror system in the Christie CP-2000 projector stolen from the Christie web site.... [Eek!]
 -

Mark

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 12-15-2006 08:53 AM      Profile for Brian Guckian   Email Brian Guckian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Stephen Furley
there are some major problems fitting the thing in, it's supposed to be completed by next month, but I can't see all the necessary work being finished by then
quote: Stephen Furley
Something that concerns me somewhat is that it says that no extraction is required as the machine just exhausts to the atmosphere through a vent on the left side. It gets pretty unpleasant in the box when there is just a conventional video projector operating in there; do you know how much heat this thing puts out?

Sounds like they shouldn't be installing on this site. It doesn't seem suitable. In the beginning of this scheme, sites had to fulfil quite stringent criteria AFAIR.

Regarding the heat output, it HAS to be extracted. I've seen an install where the same mistake was made...the server was near the projector and took in its exhaust heat...started crashing. Stands to reason! It has to be done properly. Again, it's odd how this site was deemed suitable.

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Kevin Markwick
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Uckfield East Sussex England
Registered: Sep 2004


 - posted 12-15-2006 04:51 PM      Profile for Kevin Markwick   Author's Homepage   Email Kevin Markwick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It will get very hot. We have just had our NEC installed and the lamphouse vents at the rear sending a stream of very hot air into your face if you go near it. The Quvis sits on a rack below the lamphouse along with the raid array and the cine IPM.

We are going to get something made to fit into the lamphouse vent and take the heat away into the roof void.

The porthole AA specify is actually quite large and for a theatre like yours you could probably get away with something smaller. It is worth noting howver that the lens sits to the left of the machine.

Haven't used it for public shows yet, been busy with the Bond, not available on digital. The clips left on the server look very good though.

The "wall box" contains all the automation and pass through for the network connection.

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Tristan Lane
Master Film Handler

Posts: 444
From: Nampa, Idaho
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-15-2006 11:03 PM      Profile for Tristan Lane   Email Tristan Lane   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Kevin Markwick
Haven't used it for public shows yet, been busy with the Bond, not available on digital.
Are you referring to Casino Royale? It's available in digital (and since it is a Sony picture it is a large 4K package.)

Which makes me wonder, Which player are you using? Quvis has a few product models to choose from.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 12-16-2006 12:25 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, Bond certainly is in Digital. Been seeing it for the past 3 or 4 weeks, now, in the various new installations I'm working on.

[thumbsup]

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Kevin Markwick
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Uckfield East Sussex England
Registered: Sep 2004


 - posted 12-16-2006 05:49 AM      Profile for Kevin Markwick   Author's Homepage   Email Kevin Markwick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have the Quvis cinema player.

I don't doubt Casino Royale is available on digital througout the US, but here in the UK Sony Europe have not made it available.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 12-16-2006 05:54 PM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've just run two shows of it this evening, on film. There's a credit for the digital intermediate, so obviously the film must have gone through one. Would the digital cinema release be made from this, or by scannig a film element, probably an IP, made from it?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-17-2006 12:42 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Its sad those that make big decisions on what model and such almost always never seem to know how to select the right model... I'd have gone with the 1500 since its readily adaptable to external exhaust and it also tales regular cinema lamps. Its also not that much more expensive. The 800 is really intended to be a poetable unit.

Mark

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 01-19-2007 05:52 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I went to the cinema to see Pan's 'Labyrinth' yesterday. When I arrived I asked to speak to the projectionist because I had received an e-mail about the showing of adverts which I didn't understand, and I will be projecting again next month. The building work and electrics are completed, and the projection equipment is scheduled to be installed on 15th feburary. I'm booked to work a short shift there the next day, so I should be able to have a look at it. I'm not allowed to touch it. It's going to be rather cramped in the box.

Another e-mail I received says that adverts and trailers will continue to re run on the 'old' projectors for the time being. The intention seems to be to run digital as far as possible. What's not clear is whether this will mean that they wil choose the films they want to show, and then show them in digital if available, and on film if not, or whether the programming policy will be dictated by digital availability, and if a film is not available in digital form then it simply won't be booked. I hope it's the former, but only time will tell.

If it does turn out that non-digital films are not booked then much of what we run now, particularly the films which we should be showing, i.e. those that are not showing at other cinemas locally, are going to disappear, which would be the exact opposite of the aims of the scheme.

The first digital show is booked for one day next month; I don't know what the film is, the February programme booklet is out but doesn't mention it, and the Duty Manager that I asked couldn't remember.

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